Odin god, Babies, Fallen Man, Equality vs. Liberty, To Know Him is to Love Him, Children, Rapture, One Gospel, Monotheism, Dark Ages, Religion of "Pieces", American Culture, KKK, Know Your Enemy, Emperor's Cloths, Robin Hood, Terror of the Lord, Annihilationism, True Force, Original Sin, Tablets

Response to comment:  "When I talk about your god, or other mythological characters, both from the bible and other myths, as if they were real persons, this is not because I accept the "historicity" of those myths. I will be talking about the story in the same way I would be talking about the Fall of Anakin Skywalker or the Quest of Frodo." 

I understand that you reject the teachings of the Bible, but have you read it?  Most people in a search for answers to their existence have at least read the first few chapters.  What better explanation can you have for the origins of all things?  Excerpt The Genesis Record by Henry Morris, which I happen to be reading now:

It has often been pointed out that if a person really believes Genesis 1:1, he will not find it difficult to believe anything else recorded in the Bible. That is, if God really created all things, then He controls all things and can do all things.

Furthermore, this one verse refutes all of man’s false philosophies concerning the origin and meaning of the world:

(1)     It refutes atheism, because the universe was created by God.

(2)     It refutes pantheism, for God is transcendent to that which He created.

(3)     It refutes polytheism, for one God created all things.

(4)     It refutes materialism, for matter had a beginning.

(5)     It refutes dualism, because God was alone when He created.

(6)     It refutes humanism, because God, not man, is the ultimate reality.

(7)     It refutes evolutionism, because God created all things.

Actually all such false philosophies are merely different ways of expressing the same unbelief. Each one proposes that there is no personal, transcendent God; that ultimate reality is to be found in the eternal cosmos itself; and that the development of the universe into its present form is contingent solely on the innate properties of its own components. In essence, each of the above philosophies embraces all the others. Dualism, for example, is a summary form of polytheism, which is the popular expression of pantheism, which presupposes materialism, which functions in terms of evolutionism, which finds its consummation in humanism, which culminates in atheism.

The entire system could well be called the system of atheistic evolutionary humanism. Other philosophical ideas could also be incorporated into the same monstrous structure: naturalism, uniformitarianism, deism, agnosticism, monism, determinism, pragmatism, and others. All are arrayed in opposition to the great truth—marvelously simple, and understandable to a child, yet inexhaustibly profound—that “in the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.”

It is remarkable that, when there have been so many anti-theistic philosophies (ancient and modern) affecting untold millions of people, the book of God makes no attempt to prove that God exists. The opening verse of Genesis simply takes this fact for granted, as though it were so obvious that only a fool could say “there is no God” (Psalm 14:1).[1]

[1]Morris, Henry M.: The Genesis Record : A Scientific and Devotional Commentary on the Book of Beginnings. Grand Rapids, MI : Baker Books, 1976, S. 37

Response to comment:  "'I do not think that killing babies is ok.' [So] that means that you believe that the mythological Biblegod did things that were not OK?"

No, my position is that all that God does is right and good.  He is committed to righteousness although admittedly we cannot always understand the goodness in what He does.  He will use evil for His own purposes.  Romans 8:28 encourages the believer that although we can become disappointed in this life, God has something better in store for us when we respond rightly to Him.   

See:

When God Kills Kids 

Response to comment:  "The Earth in not fallen..."

By fallen, I mean that anyone can see that there is something terribly wrong with this world.  God did not create the world to be this way.  He created a perfect world.  But because man chose to sin against God, we reap the repercussions of that fallen state.  The consequence of sin is seen throughout the world. 

Response to comment:  "What is "sin" and how does it cause wars? My understanding of history shows that most wars are started because of oppression, greed, expansion desire, religious fanaticism and/or religious/cultural intolerance."

Because of sin, man fights man (Cain murdered his own brother).  Man still fights man.  No matter how often the liberal tells you that we can live in a peaceful world, we will not—not until Jesus comes again to put things right again.  Man has worked throughout the centuries to put the world back in order.  Has he accomplished it yet in all that time?   Has man ever had peace on the earth? 

Often the liberal will blame an unequal distribution of wealth as the cause of societal struggles.  Does it get better if we redistribute the wealth in a search for equality?  The productive man, able to make money doesn’t much care for legalized theft of his wealth given to another.  That is not freedom.  If he gives his money away to another in need he is free.  The decision has been made by his will.  If the money is stolen away by government, he is resentful because he is in bondage to the government.  The liberal loves bondage.  Men who have known freedom (e.g. freedom in Christ) value it.  Men who have never known it devalue it.  Liberals value equality, we value liberty.      

Response to comment:  "Atheists don't hate gods. Just as I don't hate Darth Vader for murdering the Younglings. Darth Vader doesn't exist, and neither do any of the gods from human mythology."

It is possible that atheists do not hate God, but in my experience although they claim that they do not believe in Him, they actually do acknowledge His existence and hate Him.  It is evident, because they attack His character.  They don’t have much nice to say about Him (if He did exist). 

I believe that they do not know God.  It is my hope that if they knew Him better, they would love Him for who He is.  I am not naďve.  Often, men do know who He is and hate Him anyway.  They immediately realize that He is holy and they are not.  He is good and they are not.  He is right and where they disagree with God, He is right and they are not.  They rebel against God because of their sin nature. 

If a man genuinely does not believe that there is a God, then there is nothing to love or hate.  That man according to scripture is a fool (Ps 14:1).  I do not believe that most “atheists” are fools.  For the most part, they seem to actually believe in God and hate Him.  They hate Him because they love their in too much (Jn 3:2).  Religious people also misrepresent themselves.    

Response to comment:  "...[Atheists mean to say] 'the character of your story is a deranged psychopath because in the story, he callously murders children.'"

If God does not exist and the character who we call God is whom we are speaking of, His character would still be good and perfect.  He is or isn’t real, but either way He is still good and right.  He will use evil and still remain good and right.  Can we always see the goodness in what He does?  No, but as we read His word and see what He has done in hindsight, we see that He was good.  Therefore, we trust Him with our future.    

Response to comment:  "Wow, so new-born babies are the enemies of your God?"

No, new born babies are not the enemies of God.  God loves newborn babies.  It is His hope that they will grow up, repent of their sin and put their trust in Him.  Each baby is born with a sin nature (Ps 51:5).  They are descended from the first man, Adam.  In Adam, they are fallen creatures who have a sin nature.  I give you, that they look awfully cute.  In reality, they are reprobates.  Have they had the chance to sin yet?  No.  Will they?  Yes, because it is in their nature.  Man sins because he is of Adam, of a sinful nature. 

God loves each child.  He proved that by dying for each child so that they can live with Him forever (Ro 5:8).  Will some grow up and become His enemy?  Yes.  When the Israelites disobeyed God and let some Agagites go, they grew up and one arranged for the order to go out to kill all of the Jews.  God was looking out for His own people and they thought they knew better by letting cute little babies go in war (Esth 3:1).      

Response to comment:  "...[W]hy do you keep ignoring our All-father, Odin?"

I would reject Odin because he has not proven himself to be real, or historically accurate in any way. 

See:

Jesus' Birth in Bethlehem, Part 1 (right click, open) by John MacArthur

Response to comment:  "The 'rapture' is a fantasy that has no basis in biblical mythology."

The rapture refers to history future or God's plan for the world.  If you are deceived (e.g. blinded by the god of this world, Satan [2 Cor 4:4]) then you will not believe in God's plan for the world.  If you are alive on that day your heart will stop in fear of the presence of a holy God.  Jump start your heart now so that it will not fail in that day.

There is a terrifying day of judgment coming.  We will be rescued from wrath.  Unbelievers won't.  We bring that message to others that they might be delivered from it.  Sinners would like to think that they can live their lives and they are without accountability before God.  They don't want people posing as a higher authority.  They don't like the idea of a holy, righteous God who will eternally punish the sinner for not being forgiven.  The wrath to come is a reality.  Men should fear divine judgment. (MacArthur).     

Response to comment:  "I thought you said you were a 'Christian', yet the way you seem to [follow] Paul, you look more like a Paulian (as many evangelical Christians seem to be)."

Paul pointed his followers to Christ not to himself.  I am a Christ-follower not a Paul-follower.  Peter and Paul were Christ-followers.  Churches today who claim to follow Peter (though do not, as Peter agreed with Paul in doctrinal differences) cause a division.  Those churches follow the traditions of the Pharisees, neither Peter nor Paul. 

"14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent xto be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that ythe longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his zepistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the arest of the Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, bsince you know this beforehand, cbeware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 dbut grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
eTo Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen."
x 1 Cor. 1:8; 15:58; [1 Thess. 3:12, 13; 5:23]
y Ps. 86:15; Rom. 2:4; 1 Pet. 3:20
z Rom. 8:19; 1 Cor. 15:24; 1 Thess. 4:15; 2 Thess. 1:10
a 2 Tim. 3:16
b Mark 13:23
c Eph. 4:14
d Eph. 4:15
e Rom. 11:36; 2 Tim. 4:18; Rev. 1:6
The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. 2 Pe 3:14-18

Response to comment:  "Why couldn't [a] hypothetical being be an idiot as well?"

If the hypothetical being (e.g. the Creator God) exists, He would have made the heavens and the earth and all of the things in it.  It would take intelligence to do so.  An idiot can recognize the complexity of the world.  An intelligent person (e.g. a scientist) can recognize the intelligence in the language of the DNA code, for example.  Honest secular scientists admit that the DNA code poses one of many problems.  The problem is one of honesty not intelligence.      

Response to comment:  "Just as you wholeheartedly claim that all humanity's gods except One don't exist. We're both atheistic. I'm just an atheist with regards to one more god than you are."

Rejecting all gods including the Creator God makes one an atheist.  Christians reject the world's gods, while retaining faith in the one Creator God.  Christians are therefore monotheists.   

Excerpt The Genesis Record by Henry Morris, Gen 1:1:        

1 “God”
This first occurrence of the divine name is the Hebrew Elohim, the name of God which stresses His majesty and omnipotence. This is the name used throughout the first chapter of Genesis. The im ending is the Hebrew plural ending, so that Elohim can actually mean “gods,” and is so translated in various passages referring to the gods of the heathen (e.g., Psalm 96:5).
However, it is clearly used here in the singular, as the mighty name of God the Creator, the first of over two thousand times where it is used in this way. Thus Elohim is a plural name with a singular meaning, a “uni-plural” noun, thereby suggesting the uni-plurality of the Godhead. God is one, yet more than one.
Morris, Henry M.: The Genesis Record : A Scientific and Devotional Commentary on the Book of Beginnings. Grand Rapids, MI : Baker Books, 1976, S. 39.

Response to comment:  "[Atheists hate] the holier-than-thou preachy nutcases who refuse to listen to actual arguments. And how can you know his/her deeds are evil? Most of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view."

My claim to know that his/her deeds are evil is based upon my trust in the inspired, inerrant and infallible word of God.  "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil (Jn 3:19, NASB)."  Because I believe the word of God, I conclude that his/her deeds are evil.  No atheist or secular scientist has been able to disprove even one verse of the word of God.  My "point of view" is irrelevant.  The rock of God's word is relevant.     

Please view Post Part Two...

Response to comment:  "There are even now countries/regions where 'good Christians' will use force to impose their vision of the word of their God. And then, of course, there's a long history of Christian theocracy, aka the Dark Ages."

Christians do not believe that anyone is "good", not Mary, not you, not me (Ps 53:3).  No one is "good" but Jesus, who came to live the perfect life that you and I could not live.  The Dark Ages ended with the light of Christ.  For a long time, those who claimed to follow Christ did not.  Historical, biblical Christians were warned that there would be many false christs.  There were false christs in the first century and there are false christs today in organized religion.  False christs will continue to deceive the world until the return of Jesus.   

Response to comment:  "[I]n most Arab nations, a non-Muslim can live his/her life in relative peace (as long as they don't proselytize) as a second-rate citizen. Not unlike the Christian Right's vision of their 'Christian Nation' actually.

Take a look at Mali and the lives of their people under Islam verses their lives now with an emerging Christianity.  You are going to have a hard time convincing the world that the rule of Islam is better than that of Christ.  Mohammed's bones are dry dust.  Jesus is a spring of living water (Jn 4:10).  He is providing them water now both spiritually and physically as we speak.  What cool glass of water did any Muslim bring these people? 

Read:  What Christianity Has Done for the World

Response to comment:  "I assume you talk about the USA, when you mention 'our nation'. This is an international forum, after all."

Our nation, the U.S. was founded by God-fearing men.  The liberal loves to claim that we have no American culture.  They claim we are "multi-cultural".  Although American is becoming a post-Christian nation, to deny that there is an American culture rooted in honoring the Lord Jesus is to deny history.  Liberals are historical revisionists.  There certainly is a divide in our nation between:  right and wrong, good and bad, God-fearing and godless.  Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father (Heb 1:3).  We win in the end (Re 20:14).      

Read:  Faith of America's Founders

Response to comment:  "As long as those good ol' boys of the all-white Christian men's club, aka the KKK."

Christians believe that men are one race, the human race (Gn 9:18).  Those who reject the teaching of Genesis 9 may develop a racist view of men.  White and black Christians consider themselves brothers in Christ, often closer than relationships in their own families.  It is usually the godless liberal who rejects the Bible and becomes a racist.  The liberal cannot get beyond the melanin in a person's skin.  The Christian can move beyond race because he/she sees the person of Christ in another.

Response to comment:  "[D]ecapitation is not a punishment for infringements of Sharia.  It's the fate for enemy warriors (of course, since I'm opposed to all forms of capital punishment, it's still barbaric)."

Sura 8:59 in the Koran says, "The infidel should no think that they can get away from us.  Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them." 

Jesus said:  "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? (Mt 7:16, NASB)."

Response to comment:  "[Will you fight] Christian nationalists who try to overtake the USA and declare their own version of 'Christian' Sharia?"

I would not fight alongside what you call "Christian nationalists" who would impose what you call a "Christian Sharia" law.  The Koran (filled with historical errors, lies and deception with its profit Mohammed, a pedophile rapist) is not our book.  The policy of:  kill, convert or die is not our policy.  Men are wise to know their enemy, as Michael Savage says.  

Christ followers will war against hostile nations who hate God.  Our trust is in the person of Jesus Christ.  Our nation has become godless, officially rejected God.  Christians pray that God's hand of blessing will remain on our nation.  Christians trust in the person of Jesus Christ.  Only His kingship will result in a peaceful world.  Until then, man's form of government is imperfect. 

Response to comment:  "'You are assuming that the future is settled. It isn’t.'  Oh, so it's true then that the story in Revelation is only one of two choices. So I still have a 50/50 chance of belonging to the winning team if I sell my soul to Satan?"

The book of Revelation reveals God's final plan for earth, man, all the heavens, etc.  God has a permissive will and a determined will.  He permits men to choose hell.  God ratifies man's choice for all eternity.  You are condemned already because you have not believed on the name of Jesus (Jn 3:18).  Believing in the name of Jesus is more than an intellectual ascension as to the facts of Jesus' life, His death, and His resurrection.  It means believing that you are a sinner in need of a Savior and asking Him to be your Savior.  When man justifies himself before God (e.g. Job) he makes God out to be a liar.  God has said we are sinners who need a Savior.  We must be born again (Jn 3:7). 

When you die (the ratio is 1:1), if you were born again in life you never have to die again.  If you die, but failed to be born again in rejection and rebellion toward God you suffer another death--an eternal death.  One death for the believer and two deaths for the unbeliever or make-believer. 

When you becomes saved in a right relationship with God, your chances of going to heaven are 100%.  The redeemed are declared "right" before God and forgiven.  God, the Father sees His Son when He sees those saved.  When you die without a right relationship with God, your chances of going to hell are 100%.  Our choices are certain not a 50/50 guess.    

If I go to heaven and God asks me why I belong there and if I respond to Him:  "I went to church this many times.  I did not fail to go to this Sunday service."  I justify myself before God.  God knows that I missed that Wednesday service a time or two.

But if I reply to God that I do not belong there but I am standing by the blood of His Son, then I belong there.  Did I trust church?  No.  Did I trust my works?  No.  Did I trust in His Son?  Yes.  If we get to heaven and that is not what God wanted of us, then I and every other Christian will go to hell.  We trust in nothing else but the blood of Jesus.  "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (Heb 9:14, KJV)."

If we wish to live this life apart from God, He will ratify that decision for all eternity.  Those who die in a right relationship with God continue in that relationship for all eternity.  When a man marries a woman, he lives with her and loves her.  The marriage is ratified (a continued commitment to care for one another) and the relationship continues on in love.  When a Christian dies, his relationship with Jesus continues on for eternity.   

For those who chose to live apart from God in this life without a relationship with the Lord, He will not drag them into heaven to life with Him.  No unholy thing will enter heaven's gates (1 Cor 6:9).  The decision must be made on this side of the grave (2 Cor 5:8).

Response to comment:  "You repeat sad fairy tales. You are like the Emperor's courtiers who comment on the weave and colors of the new clothes and need a young kid's laughter to finally show you that the Emperor is walking around stark naked."

If Christ did not rise from the dead, you are right (1 Cor 5:14).  One of us will be found naked before the Lord.

Response to comment:  "The myth you follow has exactly the same validity as a claim of being a "god's word" as all other myths in human history."

The word of God is either the "myth" you call it or it is God breathed and true.  Jesus either rose from the dead or He did not.   

Response to comment:  "Jesus is about as real King Arthur or Robin Hood."

You like stories.  I think you are right.  Jesus' life, death and resurrection was either the world's biggest lie or it is true:  liar, lunatic or Lord.  Jesus either is who He claimed to be (God) or He is not.  Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor like a liberal.  Jesus gives to the poor.

Response to comment:  "[W]hy doesn't the Bible tell people not to keep slaves? Not to abuse children? Not to commit acts of terrorism? etc, etc..."

Slavery is the reality of living in a fallen world.  God gave laws to care for slaves living under that reality.  God punished those who mistreated slaves (Ex 21:21).  He provided sustenance for slaves (Lv 25:6). God provided for freedom from slavery (Dt 15:12). Other instances of slavery in the Bible:  Must enjoy religious privileges with the master’s household, Deut. 12:12, 18; 16:11, 14; 29:10, 11. Must have rest on the sabbath, Ex. 20:10; 23:12; Deut. 5:14. Equal status of, with other disciples of Jesus, 1 Cor.7:21, 22; 12:13; Gal. 3:28; Eph. 6:8. Kindness to, enjoined, Lev. 25:43; Eph. 6:9.  Emancipation of, 2 Chr. 36:23; Ezra 1:1–4.  Instances of Good: Joseph, Gen. 39:2–20; 41:9–57; Acts 7:10.

Swanson, James ; Nave, Orville: New Nave's. Oak Harbor : Logos Research Systems, 1994
Swanson, James ; Nave, Orville: New Nave's. Oak Harbor : Logos Research Systems, 1994

Of course God hates slavery: 

7 And the Lord said: k“I have surely seen the oppression of My people who are in Egypt, and have heard their cry lbecause of their taskmasters, mfor I know their 1sorrows. 8 So nI have come down to odeliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians... sthe cry of the children of Israel has come to Me...10 uCome now, therefore, and I will send you to Pharaoh that you may bring My people, the children of Israel, out of Egypt.”
k Ex. 2:23–25; Neh. 9:9; Ps. 106:44
l Ex. 1:11
m Gen. 18:21; Ex. 2:25
1 pain
n Gen. 15:13–16; 46:4; 50:24, 25
o Ex. 6:6–8; 12:51
p Num. 13:27; Deut. 1:25; 8:7–9; Josh. 3:17
q Ex. 3:17; 13:5; Jer. 11:5; Ezek. 20:6
r Gen. 15:19–21; Josh. 24:11
s Ex. 2:23
t Ex. 1:11, 13, 14
u Gen. 15:13, 14; Ex. 12:40, 41; [Mic. 6:4]; Acts 7:6, 7
The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. Ex 3:7-10

Of course God hates the abuse of children.  God was angered at the Israelites for believing the lies of the pagan world:  "You slaughtered My children and offered them up to idols by causing them to pass through the fire (Eze 16:21, NASB)."

Children are a gift from God not the "mistake" that liberals call them (Ge 33:5; Ps 127:3).

Jesus said:  "Let the little children come to me (Mt 19:14, ISV)."

Of course God hates violence and terror.  Do not confuse Him with the false god of Islam.

Response to comment:  "[You] attempt to scare people into behaving how you think people should behave."

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men (2 Cor 5:11, KJV).

Response to comment:  "After death, we cease to exist."

Annihilationism is not a biblical concept. 

Read:  Why Should I believe in Hell (Is Annihilationism a Biblical concept?),  Annihilationism

Response to comment:  "Another Christian Rightwingnut...The power to destroy planets is insignificant next to the Power of the Force.."

Read:  The True Force

Response to comment:  "'God made all people.'  No...I am the result of the love of my father and my mother."

God made man (Ge 2:8-9).  David said:  "I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me (Ps 51:5, NASB)."

Response to comment:  "But the new-born babes didn't [have responsibility before God]...[Y]ou have already admitted that your God would not be able to know for sure what they would do in the future. So, your God kills innocent babies and you're ok with that. Your god is a [murderer]..."

Murder is wrongfully taking the life of the innocent.  No one is innocent before God.  Man is fallen and sinful.  God is the creator of life so He is permitted to take life.  God is not a murder (doing wrong) man is.  What you accuse God of, man is and Satan is.  Why is your empathy toward God's enemies who die when they war against Him?  

In the fallen world we live in, babies get caught in the middle of a war.  God's enemies often die.  God does not kill babies.  Men kill babies.  Why does God allow this?  He is giving us time.  God loves children and cares for each and every one of them.  Jesus said:  "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea (Mk 9:42, NASB)."  There will be many millstones around necks. 

Response to comment:  "'God smiles when archeologists unearth little tablets that prove that His word is true.  People can trust Him. It is encouraging to the believer.'  Such tablets have never been unearthed, though."

What a charming little receipt of an insignificant transaction written about in the Bible.  A link to a picture of the tablet is here:  Tiny Tablets Provide Proof for Old Testament.

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  A few housekeeping items:

Response to comment:  "'I was banned from EvilBible.com :banned:SerpentDove    , regrettably.'  Though I applaud your honesty... it does engender apprehension."

Surprise, surprise.  The site states:  "About.com is part of The New York Times Company".  Liberals silence the critic.  I will do my best to overcome any apprehension you have with me.

Response to comment:  "Sorry Guest, you are banned from using this forum!  Rule #1 Violation, Claims Imaginary bearded Sky Daddy exists."

Status:  banned at EvilBible.com, About.com, AintNoGod.com, please join the discussion at:  SerpentDoveBlog.

Text originally posted at About.com & AintNoGod.com

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