Could the Bible be
Banned Under Hate Laws?Could the Bible Be Banned Under Hate Laws?
Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "I don't think there is so much hate, as there is a lot of misunderstandings."
True, if men knew God, they would love him.
"Also, most hate crime legislation is written so as to protect the free-speech rights of churches."
It was created that way but I do not think that free-speech rights will hold up for long. Britain is of course dead already. In this country it is already illegal, in Colorado for example, to preach Romans. It may not be long until they come to remove the pastors from our churches. We'll probably have to gather in houses like first century Christians again.
Response to comment [from other]: "If you are a white Christian heterosexual native [in Britain], then the hate crime laws won't protect you from anything."
A study of American colleges found that Evangelicals are shunned in college more than other religious groups:
[Faculty Feel Warmly about Most Religious Groups, but Feel Coldly about Evangelicals and Mormons]
Faculty have positive feelings toward Jews, Buddhists, Catholics, and Atheists.
[Faculty Feel Most Unfavorably about Evangelical Christians]
This is the only religious group about which a majority of non-Evangelical faculty have negative feelings.
[Faculty Are Almost Unanimous in Their Belief That Evangelical Christians (Fundamentalists) Should Keep Their Religious Beliefs Out of American Politics]
Faculty who are secular/liberal are more likely to favor separation of religion and government, and those who are religious and conservative are more likely to advocate a closer connection between religion and government.
[Although Faculty Generally Oppose Religion in the Public Sphere, Many Endorse the Idea That Muslims Should Express Their Religious Beliefs in American Politics]
Faculty are far less likely to endorse Evangelical Christians expressing their beliefs in American politics. link
Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "Does the First Amendment mean nothing?"
We are not to be surprised at these things (Jn 16:33). The First Amendment will mean what men say it means. Like the Constitution, these documents according to liberals are "living and breathing". You never had the right to bear arms. You had the right to mounted fluffy bear's arms on your wall (Family Guy).
The forgotten man just bought liberals a car (Cash for Clunkers). Now, he'll buy them a house (starting in Sacramento). When his back breaks--sorry, his healthcare will expire in twelve months. Forget that "Thou Shall Not Steal" thing. It's so passé. We all work for "the man" now. All hail Obama.
Can you see God's hand of blessing coming off our nation? We've asked him to leave. He is a gracious God. He does not stay where he is not welcomed.
Response to comment [from a Christian w/Jack Bauer photo]: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech..."
We are moving toward Rev 13:17
"Oh, by the way, is it hateful that I don't want you to burn in Hell?"
It is hateful now to want people saved from hell and damnation. It is loving to be apathetic. Right is wrong and wrong is right in an upside down world (Isa 5:20).
Response to comment [from a Christian]: "I don't see it as hate at all. I see it as caring enough to attempt to shed some light from a different point of view..."
I see it that way; You see it that way (Prov. 8:36). But when you share the "good news" with people, they see it as hate. They believe that leaving them alone to die in their sin--make no judgment-- is loving (Jn 8:24). Christians are not loved because they are the only people who address the true problem of the world--sin (Jn 13:16). If no one hates you for the cause of Christ, you probably aren't a Christian (Matt. 24:9, 10).
Response to comment [from an atheist]: "[T]here is so much hate from Christian, Catholics over homosexuals and virtually everything that does not appear in there religious text could it be classified as a hate document and therefore banned from public reference and sales..."
Do you feel the same about porn or will you fight to the death for it?
Response to comment [from an atheist]: "That's because Evangelicals and Mormons actively advertise and seek new recruits, which many folks find about as annoying as telephone solicitors. One thing is certain: I've never had to shut my door in the face of, say, Catholics, Buddhists or Jews out looking to get folks to join their respective organizations. It's always Mormons or some variety of Evangelical Christian to whom I have to say 'No thanks, not interested'."
Jews do not proselytize. I think you're right. Evangelicals and Mormons (a perversion of Christianity) do. Historical Christians have a mandate to seek lost sinners to share the good news (Mk 16:15). But not everyone sees the news as "good". It means they must give up their sin and most people are not interested in doing that (Jn 3:19).
Some people throw all religions into the mix. Atheists tend to do this. When all religions appear the same, it is easy to dismiss them all. The Bible teaches that a little leaven leavens the whole lump--or some truth mixed with error is enough to destroy you (Ga 5:9). It is only the Holy Spirit who can overcome such obstacles in the world. If a person is truly interested in knowing God, he will make himself known (Ac 17:27).
Response to comment [from an atheist]: "That's why most churches are happy to just hang out a shingle, sit back and let the seekers come to them; it's a waste of time and energy to go out and pester those who are not seeking."
You're probably right (Hos. 4:6). They say, when the student is ready the teacher appears. Christians would like to help people before they make a train wreck of their lives though. Most people won't listen. I'm sure we sound to the secularist like know-it-alls. Truth is, we know nothing apart from Christ (1 Cor 2:2). We tell others what God tells us to tell others (by his word, not audibly obviously). It is painful to see the end of those who reject God (2 Cor 5:11).
"Why is it painful? Will those in heaven remember with sadness those they knew who were judged and condemned?"
There will be tears in our eyes as we say goodbye to loved ones. But I suspect we will finally understand the state of their heart and agree with God's decision about them (Isa 25:8).
"One wonders what the punishment for such a crime might be."
Standing for Jesus. Will that surprise you?
Do you see yourself as tolerant toward Christians?
"Why should the afterlife of a stranger be any concern of yours?"
Christians care about others. Don't you?
"It's not like those human souls in heaven will be aware of those human
souls in hell."
God will not drag you into heaven. There is a plane taking off for Florida today. It's not for everyone, just those getting on.
"So, as far as the saved are concerned, it will be as if the damned had never existed. They will be completely unaware of them. Not even a memory."
Why would we be more stupid in heaven? Of course we will remember our loved ones. We are not interested in knowing the depth of depravity of their sins, but fortunately it may come to that (Isa 25:8).
"[I]t's almost like they take the rejection of the message as a personal rejection."
They have an appropriate fear of the Lord which the godless lack (2 Cor 5:11). Many Christians have loved ones with seared consciences already (1 Ti 4:2). When a person is in Christ, he has a personal relationship with him; so rejection of Jesus is personal. Like a marriage, the two are one. Imagine if your family members hated your spouse or best friend. Every time you came over they'd say, "You're welcomed to come in but leave that Jesus outside. We hate him." It obviously strains relationships. Although the wheat and tares grow together for now, there is already a spiritual division between them (Mt 10:34). Christians can love their enemy but they will not live like them. Christians are closer to other Christians than their own blood family members (Lk 8:21).
"Such folks would do well to cultivate more detachment; I seem to remember something about being in the world but not of it...?"
The godless want no judgment toward their lives of sin. They want to live freely: killing, stealing and destroying (Jn 10:10). If others will oblige them in their destructive ways, they see this as loving. The Bible however, calls this apathy. You get enough of that in the world. Don't expect it from a Christian. Most of the world does not care if you go to hell. The Christian does because he has a working heart.
The meaning of: "In the world not of the world" is not failing to care for others. The Christian is not popular in the world because he addresses the sin issue. He has in his own life and he wishes to share that freedom with others. He wishes to share it because it is real. If he does not wish to share what he has come to know, how real was his own salvation? The Christian walks the walk then talks the talk.
J. Vernon McGee said: "Unfortunately, there are
folk in the church today who are not honestly born again, and they will also
hate you if you are a child of God. They will hate the preacher if he is true to
the Word of God. May I say again, beware of the Christian who is popular with
the world."
McGee, J. Vernon: Thru the Bible Commentary. electronic ed. Nashville : Thomas
Nelson, 1997, c1981, S. 4:470
Response to comment [from a Christian]: [God capable of love and hate] "We are quite capable of both and we've inherited this from God."
God gave us emotions of love and hate. We know that God can have our emotions and more but he cannot have less. It is convenient for us to believe that God cannot hate but the Bible teaches for example, that God hated Esau (Mal 1:3). There are two types of people in the world spiritually. J. Vernon McGee wrote:
Response to comment [from an atheist]: "[H]omosexuality isn't a sin."
For 3,500 years of Judaeo-Christian legal principle, homosexuality has been a sin and a crime. Only in the new morality (old sin) is homosexuality tolerated.
"[T]here are many animal groups and not just animals that involved in homosexuality."
Are you arguing that you are like an animal? Like a pig? Like a dog?
"I don't understand how such intelligent people can believe such utter garbage which was made 2000 years ago by the Roman Constantine and bishops who pick and chose what went in the Bible..."
See:
Did Constantine Decide What Books Belonged in the Bible?
"[The] Bible contains may pagan dates and the story that Mary gave birth even though she was a virgin that story was stolen from the roman god of the sun and other Aztec and older gods..."
See:
Why is the Virgin Birth So Important?
See:
Is Jesus a Myth? Is Jesus Just a Copy of the pagan gods of Other Ancient Religions?
Response to comment [from an atheist]: "I'm tolerant toward everyone. But I suspect you'd spell what I call tolerance 'A-P-A-T-H-Y."
That's correct. We do not agree but at least we can understand each other.
[Caring about others] "Only if they're in my little tribe. Otherwise they fall quite beneath my notice."
If God put every person on our heart, we would probably be crushed under the pressure. Only the Creator of us all could bear such a burden.
[Plane taking off for heaven...] "Florida, at least, can be verified to exist. Heaven, not so much."
God begs to differ. He says that he has put eternity in your heart (Eccl 3:11). Is he wrong? Ask him. Heaven is not made yet but there is more than enough room (Jn 14:3). Men should learn that this world cannot satisfy. Solomon found this out.
"I fail to see how knowing that some of those one cared about in life are in hell squares with the supposed unending joy of heaven."
There is no reason for God to wipe out our memories. We learn in this life and we continue to learn in heaven. Saints will sit with Christ in judgment (1Co 6:2; Re 20:4). We agree with the Lord. When those we care about depart from us, we will better understand their dark hearts and choice to reject salvation (Mt 6:23). We were made to live forever. We live eternally with Jesus or we live eternally without Jesus.
"To hate one first has to care."
You can more fully understand betrayal then (Matt. 27:3, 4). Sometimes we can identify with "What you do, do quickly (Jn 13:27)."
"I've never killed or destroyed anybody."
Heaven's standards include: actions, words and thoughts: Ec 11:9; 12:14; Re 20:13; Mt 12:36,37; Jude 1:15; Ec 12:14; 1Co 4:5).
"It's one thing to share what one knows, but it's another to get all hurt, sad and upset when someone fails to heed what has been shared."
No doubt you attempted to persuade your family that your spouse was worth liking? That is what Christian apologists do.
"[W]hen the Christian has shared the message, he has done his job. Making sure that message is heeded is not his job."
That's true (Eze 33).
"I advise the cultivation of some detachment, like the detachment of a physician regarding a patient, or of a lawyer regarding a client."
So that no one addresses sin? (Isa 48:22). We go where the Holy Spirit would have us go. It is God who gives us the desires of our hearts (Ps 37:4). Sometimes we dust off our feet with individuals (Lk 9:5) but we keep fighting for our country. I feel I must put in a disclaimer by the way: (Mt 11:20-24; Lu 11:31,32).
[Only God knows the state of any person's heart.] "Is one to infer from this that a person doesn't know the state of his own heart?"
If you believe God's word, then our hearts are wicked (Jer 17:9).
"Because of my extreme level of cynicism, I've been told that I overestimate human wickedness, though I doubt that that is possible."
See, you and God agree on something.
[Jeffory Dahmer got saved] "How do you know this? I suspect he was just mouthing the words, just like the vast majority of prison conversions."
I am skeptical like you. But I
watched the interview myself. At the end of Dahmer's life he
said "I have accepted Him [Jesus] as my Lord and Savior...The Lord
Jesus Christ is truly God." (Dahmer Professes Trust in Jesus).
He admitted how sick he believed he was. He said that he
didn't understand how he got to be that way. Jeffory Dahmer
threw himself upon the mercy of the court--a wise decision.
Did you know at the end of Mother Theresa's life she wrote, "Jesus,
You...are not true."
Scripture teaches: "If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved (Ro 10:9)."?
Things are not always as they seem. Someone said that when we get to heaven we may be surprised about who is there and who is not there. Trust in a church does not get a person into heaven. Trust in good works does not get a person into heave. Only trust in Christ and Christ alone does (Isa 63:9; Eph 5:23, Isa 45:21,22; 59:16; Ac 4:12).
[When God does something, he does it big!] "Seems like a profound waste, though, given how miniscule the population of heaven is likely to be."
Still, it will be a big family (Re 20:6). Look at space. Isn't it a whole lot of seemingly wasted space (Ps 19:1)? It isn't. The Bible seems to indicate that it was an afterthought for God--I'll toss this in for good measure--"He made tthe stars also (Ge 1:16)." God is concerned with men being saved (2Ti 1:9).
Response to comment [from a Christian]: [Gerald a good guy]
Is it true? Are you the last soul that we've been waiting for?
"Ewww, I certainly hope not! I have a fiendish reputation to maintain! Now, if you'll excuse me, I left a pot of boiling kittens on the stove..."
"I've never been able to figure out how one can cause harm with mere thoughts."
If you offend your neighbor, you may be punished. If you offend the Mayor and slap him on the face, you will probably go to jail. If you offend a holy God by rejection of his son, you will be punished eternally. An eternal offence requires and eternal punishment. Every impure thought or action is sin. People may not take their sin seriously but God does (Pr 14:9).
[Persuading family that spouse was good] "No, I didn't consider it worth the bother. I shook the dust from my feet then and there, without so much as a glance over my shoulder."
Marriage between one man and one woman is a divine institution (Ge 2:24). If you have to side with a spouse or family member, it has to be your spouse. But if you have to side with a family member or God, it has to be God (Mk 3:35).
"[T]he message is as clear as the messengers claim, apologetics shouldn't be necessary."
God doesn't need us our help (Ac 2:27; 5:14; 11:24). Because he is gracious, he allows us participate in his plan.
[Fight for country] "Unlike me, who has written off the bulk of humanity."
Men disappoint but God doesn't (2 Ti 1:7). Sharing the gospel is the best way to make social change for the good.
[Hearts wicked (Jer 17:9)] "One doesn't need the Bible to understand that: the most cursory examination of human history demonstrates it readily."
It seems so obvious; but many people believe that men can handle this world just fine without God. It's because of our pride. People exchange the true gospel for one of their own thinking. The secular (1Co 8:1) and the religious (Lu 18:11,12; Zep 3:11) do this.
[Disagree with God] "[W]e disagree on a key point: God thinks people are worth saving."
No argument here. There is nothing lovely about us at all (Ro 5:8).
[Dahmer] "Not skeptical enough, because you're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt."
I may be fooled, but it did not appear that he was trying to deceive. I never would have imagined it possible for a person like Dahmer to be saved; but that is because I did not understand the gospel of grace. Works are man's way to God (e.g. religions), but grace is God's way (2 Ti 1:9). Our works do not matter before salvation. Only our faith honors God (Heb 11:6). To me, this is another proof that the Bible is true--no man would come up with such a gospel and plan for salvation. It does not appeal to man's intellect or religion (1 Cor 1:23).
"I've never examined anything Mother Theresa said or wrote. She is and has been a non-entity to me."
I think people compare themselves to her apparent goodness, figure they can't be as good, and then give up trying. No matter how "good" people seem (e.g. Mary, Jesus' mother; Mother Theresa, the saints of old, etc.) each were sinners in need of a savior (Ro 3:12).
[Ro 10:9] "It's the 'believe in your heart' part that trips people up, because anybody can mouth words."
That's true. There are many cultural Christians. Jim Andrews said, "If you have a talking faith that is not a walking faith, you have a mocking faith."
[Big family (Re 20:6)] "A big family that never fights or disagrees. Yawn."
I don't know people think that heaven will be boring. "In Luke 23:43, Jesus declared, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with me in paradise." The word Jesus used for "paradise" is paradeisos which means "a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, paradise)". Paradeisos is the Greek word taken from the Hebrew word pardes which means "a park: - forest, orchard" (Strong's). Jesus said, "Today you shall be with me "en paradeisos," not "en nephele" which is Greek for “in clouds.” The point is that Jesus picked and used the word for "a park." Not just any park but "the paradise of God" or park of God (Revelation 2:7) which for us will be a place of future happiness. Does this sound like a boring place? When you think of a park, do you think of boredom?..." Full text: What Will We Be Doing in Heaven?
[Ps 19:1] "And making the universe pretty to look at is supposed to help accomplish that? Color me unimpressed."
I can be impressed by looking at my thumb print, or imagining looking at my own DNA stretched out before me. Did you know that if the DNA inside one cell was stretched out end to end, it would be approximately six feet long? (www.genome.gov). We get to explore all of this and more in heaven. We will never stop asking questions because God will always keep a few tidbits from us.
Heaven will be nice but as Christians we aren't supposed to be "so heavenly minded that he's no earthly good," as J. Vernon McGee put it. There is a lost and dying world out that that we must get to. Our debt is not paid until every person has heard the gospel of Jesus.
Response to comment [from an atheist]: "The Bible in and of itself is harmless. It's those darned Christians who are the dangerous ones. I don't know if it would be possible to ban a group of Christians, for instance the ones who call for the extermination of millions of American citizens because of their sexual activity. That seems to be a brazenly dangerous attitude, especially when the bloodthirsty plans of the theocrats hinge on the collapse of America."
Someone said if we were of the world, the hounds would not be at our feet. The reason Christians are not loved, is because they address the issue of sin. We do not yield on God's truth and his standards. The rest of the world does that. Homosexuality is an abomination to God and it is a crime (laws come from God not man). Today we do not stone the homosexual. Now, we share the gospel and die to ourselves. What more do you want? To stuff us all in a closet so that homosexuality can reign freely? Light has come into the world (Jn 3:19). Will you scurry from it? Christ died so that you can be forgiven. What will you do with Jesus?
Response to comment [from an atheist]: "The Bible does contain and describe plenty of hatred. That's beside the point. I seriously doubt it could ever be banned under so-called hate laws."
I think it's a love story and it will be banned (Rev 13:15).
There is a visible church in apostasy (a departure from the faith) and an invisible church on the way to a rapture. That makes two departures. Where will you turn? Will you even notice when the Christians are gone?
Response to comment [from an atheist]: [Offending a neighbor and being punished] "Is it an offense to ignore one's neighbor? To never invite him into the house, to hold him at arm's length if he approaches, to politely decline his invitations to fellowship?"
No, it is not an offense to ignore your neighbor, or fail to invite him in, or keep him at a distance, or decline and invitation for fellowship. That is your right.
According to the Bible, the only unforgivable sin is rejection of the Holy Spirit (Mt 12:32). One of the ministries of the Holy Spirit, is to point people to Jesus. When men refuse him time and time again deciding that they are not worthy of heaven, finally God gives them their choice. Love must be real. For love to be real, men must have the choice to accept it or reject it.
When Adam and Eve lived in the garden they had access to the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. They knew God and loved him. They had every reason to trust him. They also had the choice to reject him, rebel against him and sin. After the Fall Adam must have repented because he had to be driven out of the garden. Guards had to be posted at the entrance (Ge 3:24). Adam's choice had consequences. God cannot be righteous if he is not just.
"If it is an offense, what might the punishment be?"
Continued rejection, rebellion and sin leads a person to hell (Ro 6:23). People live forever. Those who repent live with Jesus forever. Those who do not live without him forever.
"I won't go to jail if I call the Mayor a 'fat, self-important ignoramus' in front of his friends."
That is true. The reasons people mock are to: show unbelief (2 Chr. 36:16); portray scorn (2 Chr. 30:10); ridicule (Acts 2:13); and insult (Gen. 39:14, 17).
Because punishment isn't swift, it doesn't mean that it isn't coming. "Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil [Eccl. 8:11]."
"God certainly doesn't like to be ignored, does He?"
No. He is worthy of all praises (Re 4:8).
"I wish to point out that you're starting to come across as one of those Scripture-quoting AIs (type in a topic, get back a relevant Bible verse); not a particularly effective way of conversing, that."
What I think is irrelevant. What God says is all important. I believe in giving the word of God out. What men do with it is their business (Isa 55:11).
Response to comment [from an atheist]: "If the majority of the world population were homosexuals and they were oppressing you, I would stand up for you."
Is that sort of "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it..."? I would not die for someone's right to be crass. But I would die for the gospel.
"As it stands Christians, are a large section of the global population..."
Have you ever met a born again Christian?
"...So Your pitiful little victim complex is inappropriate and unrealistic. I don't want you folks stuffed in a closet. I want you to stay out in public with your big mouths wide open."
It's liberals who cherish victim status. Christians are interested in living and getting the word of God out. Christians throughout the world suffer for their faith everyday.
Nigeria: Pastors Beheaded: "On July 26, 12 Christians were killed, including three pastors, in northern Nigeria after members of the Islamic extremist group Boko Haram launched attacks on police and government bases, according... " Story
Bangladesh: Pastor Tortured by Police: "On June 7, police raided an evangelism meeting, arrested and tortured a pastor and two others in Boalia, Bangladesh, according to The Voice of the Martyrs contacts. Pastor Habibur Rahman, of..." Story
Pakistan: Eight Believers Killed: "On Aug. 1, a mob of angry Muslim extremists attacked Christians in Gojra district, Punjab province, killing at least eight believers, including a seven-year-old child, according to The Voice of the..." Story
Iran: Women: We Love Christ!: "UPDATE: On Aug. 8, Marzieh and Maryam were summoned to an Iranian court and ordered to deny their faith verbally and in a written statement, according to The Voice of the Martyrs contacts. Marzieh..." Story
Response to comment [from a Satanist]: "Lots of people suffer for their religion every day. Such persecution is unfortunate, but not unique."
Which side are you on? (Eccl 10:2).
Could the Bible be
Banned Under Hate Laws?