Early Christians on the teachings of Christ's historic church

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "We should avoid their teachings..."

Avoid any teaching that perverts and inverts the word of God. Your church is in its final stages of apostasy (Re 3:14–22).

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed [Gal. 1:8].

"This verse is as strong as anything could possibly be. Paul says that if an angel dared to declare any other message than the gospel, he would be dismissed with a strong invective.

If an angel should appear to me right now and say, “You are right as far as you go, but you also have to do something to be saved”; or if an angel should appear to you as you read this and say, “McGee is correct as far as he goes, but you have to do something else,” both you and I should say, “Get out of here; I’m not listening to you although you are an angel from heaven.”

My friend, in our day we hear many speakers who are trying to give us another “gospel.” They may look like angels to you—after all, Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light, and his ministers are transformed as the ministers of righteousness (see 2 Cor. 11:14–15)."
McGee, J. Vernon: Thru the Bible Commentary. electronic ed. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1981, S. 5:154

See:

Catholic Traditions

"Christ's historic church"

Your claim is a false.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." ~ Joseph Goebbels Eph 4:14

See:

What was the first / original church? Is the original / first church the true church?

Recommended Reading:

Is Rome the True Church?: A Consideration of the Roman Catholic Claim by Norman L. Geisler

"[N]o one cares about the erroneous opinions..."

Truth is truth independent from me (Ac 5:29, Mt 15:9).

"...[O]f a known public liar..."

You're projecting again.

Cruciform quote:

“[T]he Bishop of Rome represents God before men.”

SD: [Christ is the head of his church….The statement is true or it is false.]

Cruciform: "It's false..." link 2 Pet. 2:1

[God's Perfect Man and Man's Perfect God Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] "Our primary mission field today is within the church. The latest survey reveals that 86% of Americans say they believe in Jesus. Yet, a much smaller percentage of people say they are born-again Christians. How can so many people be de- ceived or deluded? Many of them have been told by misguided pastors or evangelists that repeating a prayer, signing a card, being bap- tized, joining a church or coming forward in an altar call has made them a Christian. Oth- ers have been asked to "accept" a Jesus they don't even know. It is no wonder the Apostle Paul exhorted his readers to "examine your- selves as to whether you are in the faith" (2 Cor. 13:5). We are to test ourselves and en- courage others to do the same. The test: Have we believed the true Jesus as He is revealed in the Scriptures or a "Jesus" who has been created by the imagination of men?..." Full text: God's Perfect Man and Man's Perfect God

"Why do you keep setting yourself up to be displayed as a public liar..."

You're projecting again. Link

[Jesus is the Eternal God Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] “Throughout the Bible, the divine nature of Jesus and His eternal existence is proclaimed. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father" (John 1:1, 14). We see from these verses that He is distinct from God and at the same time, God. He is the eternal Son of God, the second person of the triune God. John later affirmed that Jesus Christ "is the true God" (1 John 5:20). Even the doubting apostle Thomas ad- dressed the resurrected Jesus as "my Lord and my God" (John 20:28). Paul said of Jesus, "In Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" ( Col. 2:9). Those who believe Jesus is one of many gods or that He was a man who became God have been woefully deceived and must repent of this fatal lie…” Full text: Jesus is the Eternal God

[Jesus is Our Creator Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] “Paul wrote, "By Him all things were created...all things have been created through Him and for Him" (Col. 1:15-16). "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being (John 1:3). Since man- kind is the Lord's crowning work of creation, his only rightful attitude toward Jesus, should be one of complete dependence, worship and submission. Those who recognize their accountability to their Creator and trust Him become a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17). They are re-created "according to God, in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph. 4:24)…” Full text: Jesus is Our Creator

"The interested reader is encouraged to consider the link in Post #88, and decide for himself."

This is a long-winded way of saying let the reader decide.

Be yourself. Everyone else is taken (Ga 5:9).

Cruciform quote:

“[T]he Bishop of Rome represents God before men.”

SD: [Christ is the head of his church….The statement is true or it is false.]

Cruciform: "It's false..." link 2 Pet. 2:1

[Jesus is Sovereign Lord Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] “All authority has been given to the Lord Jesus, and He rules over His entire creation (Psalm 103:19; Mat. 28:18). The sovereign authority given to Jesus by His Father is absolute and universal. During His earthly ministry, He demonstrated His authority over diseases, demons, sin, death and nature. He also has the judicial authority to condemn men to eternal death or give them eternal life. Professing Jesus as sovereign Lord is not an option but an essential confession for salvation. Paul declared: "If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved...whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Rom. 10:9-13). Confessing Jesus as Lord should result in humble submission to His divine authority (Philippians 2:10-11)…” Full text: Jesus is Sovereign Lord

[Jesus is Our Creator Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] “Paul wrote, "By Him all things were created...all things have been created through Him and for Him" (Col. 1:15-16). "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being (John 1:3). Since man- kind is the Lord's crowning work of creation, his only rightful attitude toward Jesus, should be one of complete dependence, worship and submission. Those who recognize their accountability to their Creator and trust Him become a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17). They are re-created "according to God, in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph. 4:24)…” Full text: Jesus is Our Creator

"Post #91..."

[Jesus is the Way Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] “Those who are lost need to know the way. Jesus is the Way and not a way. When people follow Jesus Christ they can be certain they are "going right" but if they follow any other way, they may never know they are "going wrong." The Lord Jesus came "to seek and to save that which was lost" (Luke 19:10). Lost sheep will listen for the voice of the Good Shepherd and they will follow Him (John 10:3-9). He is the door the sheep must enter to be saved (John 10:9).

God's one and only way to eternal life is through His Son (John 14:6). That is why the most frequent command the Lord gives in the Gospels is "Follow Me!" His mandate is given "because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it" (Mat. 7:14). Oh, there is another way, which seems right to men, but it leads to death (Prov. 14:12). Those who do not follow Jesus spend their lives wandering aimlessly on the broad way, which leads to destruction (Mat 7:13). Following Jesus is the only sure way to keep people from going to hell; however, there is absolutely no way to rescue anyone out of hell (Heb. 9:27)…” Full text: Jesus is the Way

"Already answered..."

[Jesus Is the Truth Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] “People need truth because we are easily taken "captive through philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men and the elementary principles of the world" (Col. 2:8). For this reason Jesus came into the world to bear witness to the truth (John 18:37). Our Lord said, "If you abide in My Word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:31-32). Jesus sets people free from the bondage of religious deception.

Jesus is the personification of truth and His word is truth (John 14:6; 17:17). He and His Word are so connected that those who reject His word are also rejecting Him (John 12:48). The personification of truth, can only be known in truth by those who seek the truth from the only infallible source for truth. We need a trustworthy standard for truth because Satan leads the whole astray through his false teachers (1 John 5:19; Rev. 12:9). The only way to discern God's truth from Satan's lies is to abide in God's Word. To use any other standard is a fatal mistake…” Full text: Jesus Is the Truth

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "I think that some of the Protestant oral traditions are religious deceptions."

Better find out for yourself (Mt 15:9).

The scriptures are full and sufficient (Lk 16:29,31), an unerring guide (Pr 6:23; 2 Pe 1:19), able to make wise to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus (2 Ti 3:15).

[Jesus is the Life Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] "Jesus is the life we need because everyone is born into this world spiritually dead. The spiritual death we inherit from Adam leads to eternal death unless we are born again (Rom. 5:12). It is for this reason Jesus announced, "Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). A description of this second birth is described by Paul: "When you were dead in your transgressions... He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions (Col. 2:13). When one is born again he receives the very life of Christ, who can never die again (Rom. 6:6-9). Jesus declared, "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life" (1 John 5:12). The Lord Jesus sovereignly gives life to whom He wishes. At the very moment repentant sinners receive the love of the truth and believe, they pass out of death into life (John 5:21-24). The life Jesus promises is eternal, everlasting, never-ending life in His presence (1 John 2:25)..." Full text: Jesus is the Life

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "...Don't even bother..."

No bother (1 Co 9:17).

[Jesus is the Only Mediator Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] “A mediator is necessary whenever two parties are at enmity with one another. The Lord Jesus is the only one qualified to mediate between His Father and sinful man. He is God's perfect man and man's perfect God. "There is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim. 2:5). "When we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son" (Rom. 5:10). He changes the relationship that repentant sinners have with God, from one of hostility to one of peace and harmony. "For He Himself is our peace, who... broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity... through the cross" (Eph. 2:13-16). Only in Christ Jesus can those who were formerly far off be brought near by the blood of Christ. Only in Christ can the sin that separated us from God be removed (Isaiah 59:2). Only in Christ can believers be permanently reconciled to God forever (Rom. 8:31-39)…” Full text: Jesus is the Only Mediator

[Jesus is the Only Savior Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] “The Lord said, "Besides me there is no Savior" (Isaiah 43:11). Peter proclaimed: "There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12). Jesus, the eternal God, is the only Savior because finite man could never pay his eternal debt for sin. The Bible makes this clear. "No man can by any means re- deem his brother or give to God a ransom for him; the redemption of his soul is costly, and he should cease trying forever" (Psalm 49:7- 8). The redemption of a sinner's soul requires an infinite payment because he has sinned against an infinitely holy God. For this reason the punishment for sin is eternal separation from God in the eternal lake of fire (Rev. 20:14). Even after a thousand years in the lake of fire, the debt owed for sin remains infinite. A sinner's only hope is to trust Jesus who "canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross" (Col. 2:14).

The Bible declares: "you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins" (Mat. 1:21). The Lord Jesus saves every believer from sin - its punishment when they are justified, its power when they are regenerated and its presence when they are glorified (Rom. 6:14; 1 John 3:14)..." Full text: Jesus is the Only Savior

"Amen" (2 Pe 2:1).

[Jesus is Our Substitute Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] "Many believe that Jesus died for the sins of the world - that's history. However, when a sinner believes that He died for him or her - that's salvation. "He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities...He will bear their inequities (Isa. 53:5, 11). The wrath of God that was poured out on Jesus was the punishment and death that every sinner deserves. As our willing substitute "He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross" (1 Pet. 2:24). This is why the Gospel is the greatest news anyone could ever hear. It reveals an unmerited gift that can only be received by grace, through faith, in the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ..." Full text: Jesus is Our Substitute

"It is not right for me here to draw back and to give way out of love toward you or any other man; before the Word everyone must give way, whether he be friend or enemy..." Martin Luther

["Amen" (2 Pe 2:1). ] "...[E]xactly..."

How are people saved? Eph 2:8-10

See:

Works vs. Faith

[Jesus is Our Righteousness Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] “Those who seek to gain heaven by their own righteousness are ignorant of God's righteousness which requires perfect righteous- ness to be in His presence. Jesus declared this clearly: "you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Mat. 5:48). This is why Jesus, the perfect High Priest, had to offer Himself, the perfect sacrifice, to satisfy the perfect justice of a Holy God who demands perfection. The blood sacrifice of the spotless Lamb of God is a sinner's only approach to a holy and righteous God.

Tragically, God's standard of perfection and holiness is rarely taught or explained in our churches. As a result many people establish their own standards and do not submit to God's righteousness. This is why so many people believe they can become good enough to appease God. The god they appease, however, is a god created in their own minds. They need to know the true God and His righteousness, which is given only as a gift to those who trust Him (Rom. 5:17). God "made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Cor. 5:21)..." Full text: Jesus is Our Righteousness

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "A religious man has no more worth than a non-religious one... according to the one person that ever mattered..."

But they look so good. Are you sure? Ro 3:12

[The Blood of Jesus Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] “Neither silver nor gold, nor all the riches of the world, could redeem sinners from the slave market of sin. Eternal redemption can only be obtained through the precious blood of Jesus (Eph. 1:7; Heb. 9:12). There is no other cleansing agent, and nothing else is necessary, to purge or cleanse us of our sins. "The blood of Jesus ...cleanses us from all sin" (1 John 1:7). It is for this reason believers no longer fear condemnation - having been "justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him" (Rom. 5:9). Through the blood of the cross, believers have been reconciled to God and now enjoy everlasting peace with Him (Col. 1:19-20). God's word makes it clear: without the precious blood of Jesus, there is no forgiveness, no redemption, no justification, no cleansing and no peace. Full text: The Blood of Jesus

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: ["Amen" (2 Pe 2:1). ] "...[E]xactly..."

[Jesus is Our Redeemer Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] “To redeem means to buy, to purchase or to pay the ransom price to rescue or deliver someone or something. The redeemer "gave Himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:6). Believers are no longer enslaved to sin because "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us" (Gal. 3:13). He "gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed" (Titus 2:13). All of God's people "were bought with a price" and should no longer live for them- selves, but for Him who died for them (1 Cor. 6:20; 2 Cor. 5:15)…” Full text: Jesus is Our Redeemer

[Cruciform quote: "Already answered (Post #94).."] "I looked at post 94 and you said "Christ (not the pope) is the head of the church" and said that is a lie. You basically repeated the fact that you do not think Jesus is the head of His church. Then it is repeated and you call it a lie. Are you on drugs?"
 

"Drugs. It's always about the drugs." ~ Police officer, Monk Mr. Monk Goes to Mexico φαρμακεία pharmakeia (Re 9:21, 18:23, 21:8).

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "Have you ever read the early Church Fathers?..."

Yes.

"Which ones? And do you agree with what they say?"

What's your point?

Some of these guys (query: 131 Christians). I draw a big "X" though unbiblical thoughts.

It would be a worthy exercise to tackle these thinkers one by one. It would be a good starting point for the purposes of this forum.

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "...[U]nbiblical thoughts" = "any thoughts that fail to agree with serpent's theological preferences and opinions..."

Truth is truth independent from me (Ac 5:29, Mt 15:9).

"Truth is truth independent from serpent's theological preferences and opinions...."

Scripture should be compared with scripture (not man's opinion) (1 Co 2:13).
 

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: [Christians in my library, draw big "X" though unbiblical thoughts.] "Who chooses who gets tossed?"

In my library? I do.  I make notations in books about what is biblical and what is not.

"How do you know it's not your interpretation of Scripture that's wrong..."

Why would God give words to men that mean the opposite of what they say? Love God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength (Mk 12:30).

"Every verse of the Bible means exactly what the author intended it to mean..." Full text: How to Interpret the Bible by Darrell Ferguson

See:

Hermeneutics

"Can you give examples of early church fathers that were influenced by Greek paganism?"

Augustine, Aquinas, Calvin, etc.

"...So if their interpretation of Scripture is different than your interpretation, it's them with the unbiblical thoughts?"

When I speak from the word of God, I speak with the authority of any apostle or prophet (Rogers). Lk 16:29,31, Pr 6:23; 2 Pe 1:19, 2 Ti 3:15-17. Scripture should be compared with scripture (not man's opinion) (1 Co 2:13). You will need the Holy Spirit (Jn 16:14).

"Let me make the list of Early Church Fathers easier for you."

For what purpose? Do you plan to give us your thoughts on them? So far, you've only given us 20 questions.

"I'm just trying to get a grasp on how you make the decision of who is orthodox and who isn't, and if they didn't believe in sola scriptura, why do you?"

I use my brain and God has commanded (Mk 12:30).

[Sola Scriptura Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] "The Bible gives overwhelming evidence as to why Scripture must be always our sole authority for faith. The Word of God is pure, perfect, inerrant, infallible, living, truth, light, holy, eternal, and forever settled in heaven. It illuminates, cleanses, saves, frees, guides, converts, heals, quickens, judges, and sanctifies. It also brings conviction, gives knowledge, gives wisdom, produces faith, refutes error, searches the heart, equips for every good work, and is used as a weapon. The Word of God is even exalted even above the very name of God. Have you read Psalm 138:2?

Compare this with tradition ... Jesus told the religious leaders of his day that their tradition was nullifying the very word of God. Yet the religious leaders of today continue to do the same and deceive their followers. Because of this we must take the exhortation of Peter seriously ... that is we ought to obey God rather than men.

For Christians, the Scriptures provide the only objective basis for authority while the indwelling Holy Spirit provides illumination, conviction and discernment. This dual authority, the Spirit of God working with the Word of God, is sufficient in all matters of faith and Christian living. Catholics, on the other hand, submit to a dual authority of tradition and Scripture, under the subjective interpretation of their church. The pope, speaking for the church, is said to be infallible in matters pertaining to faith and morals. You ask, "Where does it say that Scripture alone should be the authority for faith?" Is "Sola Scriptura," the battle cry of the Reformers, found in the Bible? There are at least nine biblical justifications for the authority of Scripture alone..." Full text: Sola Scriptura

Also see:

Sola Scriptura— the Formal Principle

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "Scripture should be compared with Scripture in light of the authoritative teachings of Christ's historic Church..."

False premise. You have homosexual, pedophile teachers (Mt 7:16). We have a more sure word (Jn 1:1, 2 Pe 1:19).

See:

What was the first / original church? Is the original / first church the true church? Is the church that is the oldest necessarily the most right ...

Recommended Reading:

Is Rome the True Church?: A Consideration of the Roman Catholic Claim by Norman L. Geisler

A Scriptural Response to: Biblical Evidence or Catholics St. Joseph Communication

"Or this: Philosophical & Practical Problems with Sola Scriptura"

Obey God rather than men (Ac 5:19).

See:

Vid. Catholicism vs Christianity By Mike Gendron

[ False premise.] "So do you..."

Intensional

Be yourself. Everyone else is taken (Ga 5:9).

[ Intensional] So, then, you intentionally put forth a false premise."

[yawn] False cause

Let the reader decide.

Be yourself. Everyone else is taken (Ga 5:9).

"Obey Christ---which includes..."

Not Jesus plus. Jesus period.

Grace-perverters (Gal. 1:6–8) are bound by traditions (Mt 15:9) and deceitful in all their ways (Eph. 4:14). We are saved by grace alone (Eph 2:8-9), through faith alone (Eph 1:13; 2Ti 1:10), in Christ alone (Isa 45:21,22; 59:16; Ac 4:12). Roman Catholics deny this (Jude 1:11).

"...which includes his Body, the historic Church (Lk. 10:16; Ac. 16:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6)..."

The Roman Catholic Church has nothing to do with Christianity.

"You do not need a faith plus works. You need a faith that works." ~ Jim Andrews

See:

A Scriptural Response to: Biblical Evidence or Catholics St. Joseph Communication

What is the church? Is the church a building or a body of believers?

"...rather than serpent."

Who cares what I say? What does God say? Eph 2:8-10

Like the Pharisees, you add burdens that men cannot keep. It keeps people from turning to the Lord (Mt 15:9).

See:

Lord of the Sabbath (Day 2) Matthew 12:1-21 by David Hocking (right click, open)

Early Christians on the teachings of Christ's historic church