Free Speech and Picketing Funerals

Response to comment [from a Christian]"  [Reporting others ending up in wood shed] "CheeseWiz' doesn't report fellow Leftists."

"I hardly ever report posts. However, I would report a poster who was continuously and blatantly breaking forum rules regardless of whether that person was a "rightist" or "leftist"."

How many right leaning TOLers have you reported?

"...[Y]ou keep crying about being reported (well over a month ago, I believe) but you still don't even know why you were banned. If you don't like the rules, cry to Knight..."

Knight was right to ban me. I broke the rules and he needed (I guess ) to be consistent. You should be thankful that he is so kind to you God-haters. He won't need to be in the Millennium.

"...I'm sure he'll give you a Puffs."

Is that like a cheese puff?

Response to comment [from a Christian]:  "Free speech, free speech, free speech... It is not dangerous speech...While vile, we have to protect it."

Please give us your thoughts on the military and war in general.

"Why?"

I'd like to know what you think of our military members.

"...I think that government corruption has sent them to kill and die for many suspect reasons..."

"Do you like our military members?"

"...I am sure there are several members of our military that I would not "like." Do you want me to make some blanket statement about the moral implications of serving in the military?"

If you'd like.

Do you support the hecklers?

"I do not support the message of the hecklers. However, I do support free speech that is not imminently dangerous."

Thought you might.  What do you think of a man who lays down his life for another?

Response to comment [from a Christian]:  "These people love the attention and chaos it creates."

Why does the ACLU defend them?

Response to comment [from an atheist]:  [Why does the ACLU defend them?] "Because they are defending civil liberties (should be obvious from their name)...It's not that simple, by protecting the bereaved you have to remove rights from other people. Sure you might like to take those rights from the current protesters but what about the next group that comes along and protests?"

Does the ACLU protect the rights of abortion protestors?

"...[N]ational ACLU joined its New York affiliate in defending an injunction against anti-abortion protesters..In 1997, the ACLU filed a friend-of-the court brief in support of an injunction that required pro-life advocates to stay at least fifteen feet away from the entrances and driveways of abortion clinics. The injunction also provided a fifteen-foot 'bubble zone' around each woman who came to the clinic. In effect, this court order created a zone that prohibited free speech directed at pro-life advocates. The ACLU brief stated the injunction creating this zone was consistent with the First Amendment..." Full text.

Response to comment [from other]:  "If they're free to harass service members we're free to harass those bastards as well..."

Do you support the ACLU in their defense of hecklers? "A fundamentalist Christian church group had been picketing military funerals, ... The ACLU is challenging part of the Michigan law on free speech grounds...The ACLU is challenging part of the Michigan law on free speech grounds...

"Everyone has the right to express terrible, bigoted and hateful viewpoints," says Dan Korobin, a staff attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union of Michigan, "As long as their expression doesn't cross the line into conduct that actually disrupts...or gets in the way of a funeral procession..." Full text.

Response to comment [from a Christian]:  "I've seen the worthless inbreds from the Westboro Baptist Church up close and personal in downtown Seattle. With their signs "God hates f*gs", along with their desecration of fallen heroes, they've done more to help the atheist/sodomite movement than harm it (if Fred Phelps didn't exist, the sodomite movement would invent him).

Some background on Fred Phelps:

"He’s a former Kansas Democratic gubernatorial candidate; he was an Al Gore fundraiser for the ex-Veep’s 1988 presidential run; he’s a self-styled “Baptist minister;” and he’s a buffoon."
http://americansfortruth.com/news/ba...html#more-5085

As far as the supposed "First Amendment Rights" to demonstrate at a funeral?

Local laws regarding harassment should be applied.

"Harassment is governed by state laws, which vary by state, but is generally defined as a course of conduct which annoys, threatens, intimidates, alarms, or puts a person in fear of their safety. Harassment is unwanted, unwelcomed and uninvited behavior that demeans, threatens or offends the victim and results in a hostile environment for the victim. Harassing behavior may include, but is not limited to, epithets, derogatory comments or slurs and lewd propositions, assault, impeding or blocking movement, offensive touching or any physical interference with normal work or movement, and visual insults, such as derogatory posters or cartoons." http://definitions.uslegal.com/h/harassment/

Why do you believe the Left defends the hecklers?

Response to comment [from a Satanist]:  "WBC is clearly malicious in their intent. They're not trying to start a well-reasoned discussion; they're simply out to excite, provoke, and infuriate. Ban their protests from funerals."

Agreed. Who says a Satanist and a Christian can't be friends? Oh right, God does (Eph 5:11).

"...[T]he case involves a "state" funeral, involving the military, using public facilities. So the question arises as to whether protestors (even odious ones like Phelps) can be barred from protesting. I suspect not. Sadly, Phelps' ugly insults are probably protected speech..."

Please tell us how sad that makes you.  Sad enough to prohibit it by law?

"Now if his speech is so insulting that by its very utterance it tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace, it might be limited by the "fighting words doctrine" under Chaplinsky v. State of New Hampshire. But I don't think that's an issue raised in this case."

What words would you permit the hecklers to say?  "All we wanted to do was to bury Matt with dignity and respect (Sean, Snyder)."

"I think Phelps is going to win this case."

Should he?  How would you decide in the case?

"It's the cost we pay for having the right to free speech."

What cost did you pay?

Response to comment [from other]:  "The only posters I ever recall posting would be you and the poster formerly known as Sozo/Mystery/Outlaw/Door etc."

Alright.  How 'bout lefties?

"...[Y]ou admit that you broke the rules!"

Yes.  I didn't admit that I like the rules. 

"So why....why do you continue to cry about my reporting you?"

It's fine--you're just a little Magoo (Fletcher, Liar Liar).

"[S]erpentdove, I don't hate God..."

Hope not. Should I start a why Wizard of Oz thread?

"Tell me about your childhood." ~ Thomas Dolby

Response to comment [from other]:  "Reread what I wrote. Focus on the word "only".
 

This is my point--you report only those with whom you disagree.  Silence the critic--that is your way.  

"You seem the type to break the law and then blame the bystander who turns you in."

I broke the rules and was therefore banned. You're still not happy?

You cannot win the arguments so you must resort to telling on others (Rev. 12:10. Job 1:6; Zech. 3:1).

[I didn't admit that I like the rules.] "This tells me that you are refusing to take personal responsibility for your actions. Cry to Knight about it if you don't like the rules."

If I had my way we'd discuss each AIG article.  YEC is where the battle rages (Eph 6:12).  Knight and I disagree.  It's his site.  He makes the rules. 

"You seem the type to break the law and then blame the bystander who turns you in."

What you call a bystander, I call a wimp.

Response to comment [from other]:  "...[R]efused to discuss that which you referenced!"

Silly bunny, I cannot be led down your rabbit trails.  If you'd provide a substantive response, I'm happy to reply. 

"It was hacking off practically everyone..."

Facts and truth tend to do this (Lk 23:21).  

"...[L]et alone those that don't buy into YEC..."

As facts pile up, perhaps you'll take note. It's an exciting time for young earth creationists.

"Trying to make out that Wiz was cowardly is just pretty pathetic on your part."

We all have to think like the bunny?...the bunny? You think he's courageous (1 Sam. 17:32, 50; Dan. 3:16–18; Dan. 6:7–13). I do not (Num. 13:28–33).

Response to comment [from other]:  "As soon as you were asked questions you either pasted yet another Ken Hannam article..."

What you call asking questions, I call ad hominem attacks.   Imagine staying on topic and addressing the facts.

Response to comment [from other]:  "You were lowering the overall IQ of the forum."

You are free not to read my threads.

"Knight agreed"

He did.

"All you can do is present other people's arguments...Is there an original thought in your head?"

If you'd like my opinion, ask.  Spend the time you use attacking the author of an article I post forming a question or statement about the topic at hand.  

"I rarely report posts."

And you successfully put an end to my sharing AIG articles for debate.  Since you got your way--anything else of interest to add?

"I have no power to "silence the critic"..."

You'd like to--am I right?  You'd be happier if every Christian conservative just went away.

"Many of them [Christian conservatives] have views that are relevant and worthy of serious consideration."

What biblical view do you hold?

Response to comment [from a "Christian"]:  "We poor Christians..."

Questionable.   Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30.

"Our speech silenced!"

Who hates you because of Jesus? Jn 13:16.

"Serpentdove, maybe consider that it has something to do with you..."

Ad hominem.

"...[Y]ou don't seem to realize that those commie free-speecher rights fighters are actually looking out for you..."

Name a "commie" looking out for you.  Do you consider yourself a commie?

"It's been pointed out, but my suggesting that you look towards yourself wasn't an ad hominem."

"The Bible is dangerous...to those who fear finding out that they are wrong.  It's dangerous to those who exploit the weak and the innocent, who use force to keep others enslaved in poverty and ignorance, who don't want to give up their favorite sin, who believe that salvation can be found apart from Christ....No one wants to be told they are wrong." ~ Julie Ackerman Link

Free Speech and Picketing Funerals