New Page 0

Godrulz quote: "[S]alvation is more than initial justification....The glorified body is irreversible/unconditional/unilateral since it is a metaphysical/ontological change that God will not reverse. (divorce is possible; Salvation is not metaphysical (confusion of categories on your part), but a reciprocal love relationship that is conditional and involving two parties. As in marriage, it is reversible ....Spiritual rebirth is relational, not ontological like physical birth (so the unborn or unparent argument is lame)....You seem to reduce it to an irreversible metaphysical change parallel to physical birth. In reality, it is a reciprocal love relationship, not an unconditional zapping. Past sins can be dealt with, but this does not preclude the possibility of heinous future sins, including blasphemy, that cannot be swept under the carpet by a holy God..."

[From: Understanding the New Birth by Adrian Rogers] In a birth a completion transpires. A birth is a once-for-all experience. No baby is ever born twice physically. In the physical realm the birth takes place one time. In the spiritual realm the birth takes place one time.

Some people think you can get saved and then lost...then saved...then lost.

Can you image the angel writing your name...then erasing it...then writing your name...then erasing it? No, Jesus said rejoice, your name is in the book of life (Lk 10:20). In the Greek, your name "stands" in the book. That's the reason I believe in the eternal security of the believer. I can never be unborn.

There is a difference between relationship and fellowship. When you get born again you become a partaker of the divine nature--you will always be a child of God. In a birth a commencement occurs. The birth is finished and the growth begins. A birth is a starting place. If you get a new birth you get a brand new start.

One thing you will never see is a policeman getting ready to arrest a new born child for a crime he's done because that new born child is no yesterdays; he's all tomorrows.

When you come to Jesus, all of your past, all of your yesterdays are buried in the grave of God's forgetfulness. The Bible says as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us (Ps 103:12). He doesn't say as far as the north is from the south. There's a north pole and a south pole but there's no east pole and west pole. You start east you just keep on going--as far as the east is from the west, he has removed our transgressions from us, buried them in the deepest sea.

1 Co 6:9-11--such were some of you. Washed means that the stain--the blemish is gone; sanctified means that you've been set aside clean and holy for God; justified--it's as if you were never impure to begin with...(Edited sermon notes Understanding the New Birth by Adrian Rogers).

See:

Understanding the New Birth (right click and 'save as' to download MP3)

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "[G]odrulz does what he does because not only is he not Christian, he is an enemy of Christ who intends to lead astray. There is no "not getting it" after all these years. He knows the gospel, and chooses to pervert it. He is despicable."

Response to comment [from a Christian]: [Christian angry because members do not understand grace] "I don't think he is having a good new year..."

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "No offense, no defense (can you get any dumber?)."

More substantive answers please--

--nature of Jesus, eternal life--these are not minor issues. You claim to be a Christian. Who is Jesus? Mt 16:13. What is his nature? Heb 4:15. What type of life does he give? 1 Jn 5:12.

"You said: "Brothers SDove and McGee...Some feel that the virgin conception was necessary for Jesus to be sinless. I believe this is not the case...Sin is moral/volitional, not genetic/substance/metaphysical...Jesus was sinless because He never sinned." link

Who is Jesus' father? Did he inherit Adam's sin nature as all men do? Was his birth natural? Ps 51:5.

See:

Understand the spirit of antichrist [1 Jn 4:2-6]. The Jesus test, the gospel test, and the fruit test.

"The Holy Spirit supernaturally overshadowed the virgin Mary to conceive Jesus..."

Is Jesus the preeminent Son of God? Ps. 2:7; Heb. 1:5; born of a virgin (Lk 1:31–35), the second person of the trinity (Matt. 28:19), the promised king (Ps. 89:26, 27), from a priestly and royal line (Heb. 1:8; Heb. 5:5, 6)?

"Sin is not passed on through sperm or blood since sin is not genetic, but volitional."

Did Adam's sin change the world physically? Ge 3:17. Did the fall change men physically? Ro 5:12, Eze 18:20. How about spiritually? Ge 3:11-13.

"We inherit physical, not moral, depravity from Adam."

You said sin is not genetic. How do we inherit physical sin from Adam if not genetically? If sin is not in our genes and not a part of who and what we are, why did Adam immediately notice his nakedness? Ge 3:11-13, Eze 18:4. Why had he not recognized himself in this way before? Was his awareness spiritually discerned? Had his soul changed? Which portion of our being (body, spirit, or soul) perceives deeper things? 1 Co 2:10,13. When a person is born again, how does the Holy Spirit communicate to him/her? 1 Co 2:14.

Did Jesus have a sin nature? Heb 4:15. Was sin a part of him physically or spiritually? If so, did he die for his own sin or the sin of the world?

"Jesus is sinless by choice..."

Could he have sinned?

If a person is saved, do you believe he can loose his salvation? What type of life does Jesus offer? Temporary or eternal?

See:

Once Saved Always Saved

Did Adam's sin change the world physically? Ge 3:17. Did the fall change men physically? Ro 5:12, Eze 18:20. How about spiritually? Ge 3:11-13.

"I do not believe the impeccability of Christ, but I do believe that He is, was, always will be sinless."

I want to look closely at this verse because some of you are going to disagree with what I am going to say about it. The question is asked concerning the testing of Jesus, “Could He have succumbed to the temptation? Could He have fallen?” The answer is no. When we speak of being tempted to do something wrong, what we actually mean is that we have the opportunity to do wrong, and we want to do it. Now the opportunity was the testing, but the desire to do wrong was sin, and a sinful desire is itself sin. The Lord Jesus never had that sinful desire. He was not a sinner, but He certainly had the opportunity. Knowing how hungry and weak He was from going without food for forty days, Satan began his temptation by saying, “Why don’t you make these rocks into bread?” If you have been to that land, you know that there are a whole lot of rocks there! That was the temptation. He could have made stones into bread, but He didn’t. His test was greater than mine. I want you to know that if I could make stones into bread I’d be in the bakery business! He could have, but He didn’t. He had the opportunity to do it, and that is the test. He did not yield to it. He did not desire to yield to the test; and he could not so desire because of the very fact that He was God.

When I was a boy, I lived in West Texas on the east fork of the Brazos River. In the summertime there wasn’t enough water in the river to rust a shingle nail, but in the wintertime you could have floated a battleship down there. The little town has disappeared now, but when I lived there, the Santa Fe Railroad went through it and across the Brazos River. One winter we had a flood that washed out the railroad bridge—it was a wooden bridge. So the railroad company came in and replaced it with a steel bridge. When it was completed, they brought two engines to our town, stopped them on top of the new bridge, and tied down their whistles. Well, nobody in our little town had ever heard two whistles at one time, so we all rushed down to the bridge—all twenty-seven of us. We stood there watching, and one of the extroverts of our town asked the engineer, “What are you doing?” He said, “We are testing the bridge.” So he asked, “Do you think it will fall down?” With a sneer, the engineer said, “Of course it won’t fall down!” “Then why are you doing this?” This was the engineer’s answer: “We are putting these two engines there to prove that it won’t fall down.”

Jesus, you see, was tested to prove that He was who He claimed to be. That is very important. Actually, if Jesus of Nazareth had sinned, it would not have proven that God in the flesh could sin. Rather, it would have proven that Jesus of Nazareth was not God in the flesh. The testing proved that He was God in the flesh. Because of who He is, He cannot sin. And the writer of the Hebrew epistle adds that He was tested in all points like we are, yet was without sin (see Heb. 4:15).

“For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.” The word succour means, of course, “to come to the aid of, help, assist.” Because He suffered being tempted, He is able to help others who are tested. As we get further along in this epistle, we will be studying the priesthood of God. We will see that the Lord Jesus Christ is able to help those who are tested. If there is one thing I hope this study in the Book of Hebrews will achieve, it is to make you and me very conscious that we have an High Priest. He is alive at this moment. He is at God’s right hand, and, best of all, He is available to us. When I wake up in the dark watches of the night and toss and turn, as I sometimes do, with some burden on my heart, I can look up. My High Priest is up there. He knows me, He understands, and I can take my burden to Him. When that dark moment comes, and you and I go down into the valley of the shadow of death, we have a great High Priest up yonder who will help us. No matter what happens, no matter what the test, He is able to help us. I am afraid that we do not use His services as we should. We forget about Him and try to fight our battles alone. My friend, He is available. He wants you to come to Him."

McGee, J. Vernon: Thru the Bible Commentary. electronic ed. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1981, S. 5:520-521

Who is Jesus' Father? Is Jesus the preeminent Son of God? Ps. 2:7; Heb. 1:5; born of a virgin (Lk 1:31–35), the second person of the trinity (Matt. 28:19), the promised king (Ps. 89:26, 27), from a priestly and royal line (Heb. 1:8; Heb. 5:5, 6)?

Response to comment [from a "Christian"]: "The test did not prove that Jesus was God, but that God could make a man like Himself."

No. Jesus passed the test proving who he is.

Saints will be refined like gold (Job 23:10).

See:

Satan Inc (TOL Heretics List )

You are number 11.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Paul commands believers to not sin because some were sinning. He never parroted an EL mantra that they could continue in sin, blame the flesh (whatever you think that is), sin and not have it counted against them..."

Will a person loose their salvation or be chastened by God? Heb 12:6.

Also, do you speak in tongues?

Do you believe that people speak in tongues today? Or, has the gift ceased? 1 Cor 13:8-10.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "1 Corinthian 13:10 does not provide support that the gifts of tongues have ceased. Where do you get that from?"

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "The closing of the canon is a lame assumption as an excuse to deny the validity of the gifts."

I do not argue the validity of the gifts. Tongues will be used in the future (Joel 2:28; Acts 2:17; Rev. 11:3). And, we do not have perfect knowledge of God (1 Cor 13:12). I am asking if you believe that you speak in tongues now."

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "...Paul was writing with the formation of the New Testament in mind."

"Paul uses a different word for the end of the gift of languages, thus indicating it will “cease” by itself, as it did at the end of the apostolic age."
MacArthur, John Jr: The MacArthur Study Bible. electronic ed. Nashville : Word Pub., 1997, c1997, S. 1 Co 13:8

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "I have spoken in tongues...[T]he context is also the use and misuse of gifts..."

Tell us what special prayer enhancer you received from God. How do we know you do not misuse your supposed gift?

"...With prophecy, we are to test and discern. Counterfeits do not disprove the genuine."

How do we know you are not a counterfeit? I don't know this demon you're speaking to--I don't know him. ~ Michael Corleone

"My awareness, mind, language is limited, but praying in tongues is a perfect prayer inspired by God..."

"...If I prophesied contrary to the written Word, the congregation should reject it and correct me."

"MacArthur is a good teacher, but dead wrong on this issue...You are being robbed of something God intends for you and the Church by the wrong teachings of a man."

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "So the gifts of the Spirit ceased at the end of the apostolic age, is that what you are saying?"

That is correct. Do you believe the gift is necessary now? Who is Godrulz hearing from?

Did he get a name from this spirit being?

You cannot cut out tongues without cutting out giving, administration, teaching, etc.

Who's cutting out? Tongues will be used in the future (Joel 2:28; Acts 2:17; Rev. 11:3).

The gift of tongues authenticated the message of the gospel. Tell me why we need

your babbling today to authenticate the gospel (1 Cor 14:5, 12, 13, 27, 28). The New Testament is complete (Heb. 2:3, 4).

You're a con artist. Why do you boast of an inferior means of communication (1 Cor 14:1-12); an inferior means of praise (1 Cor 14:13–19); and an inferior means of evangelism? (1 Cor 14: 20–25)? We have the word of God which is superior (1 Cor 14: 1, 3–6, 24, 29, 31, 39).

Who is putting experience above the word?