"Jesus was genuinely tempted, yet without sin. He would never have sinned under any circumstance..."

Is your statement false?

SD: “ Could he [jesus] have sinned?
Godrulz: “I believe He could have, but did not…” link

"...[W]ill not is not cannot..."

What part of Jesus could have sinned? 2 Co 5:21; Heb 4:15; 7:26; 1 Jn 3:5

"...[F]or Jesus it is essentially cannot, but theoretically will not..."

"Cannot" is fine. "Will not" is great. "Would not" is superb. Give us your scriptural proof for "could have".

"Sin is volitional/moral, not metaphysical/substance/nature/being..."

Under what condition would Jesus have submitted to an inner "yes" to sin? "This response is our unique contribution to reality. It is ours, it is us, and nothing else is (pg. 33-34, Willard)."

"So, principles, not proof texts (you do not have explicit verses to support your underlying assumptions either)..."

Sin comes from the heart (Mt 15:19). Sin is rebellion toward God (De 9:7; Jos 1:18). Was Jesus self-loathing? 1 Cor 14:33.

"We agree that Jesus is sinless and will never sin..."

"We agree on nothing." ~ Michael Scott, The Office Ga 5:9

When could he have sinned? Is he just like you and me? 2 Co 5:21; Heb 4:15; 7:26; 1 Jn 3:5. Are we going to be gods someday? Ge 1:1, Jn 1:1.

"...[F]ind another hill to die on..."

Sin: entered into the world by Adam (Ge 3:6,7; Ro 5:12); all men are conceived and born in sin (Ge 5:3; Job 15:14; 25:4); all men are shaped in sin (Ps 51:5); scripture concludes all that all men are under sin (Ga 3:22); no man is sin (1 Ki 8:46; Ec 7:20); Christ alone was without sin (2 Co 5:21; Heb 4:15; 7:26; 1 Jn 3:5); Christ was manifested to take away sin (Jn 1:29; 1 Jn 3:5). Torrey, R.A.: The New Topical Text Book : A Scriptural Text Book for the Use of Ministers, Teachers, and All Christian Workers. Oak Harbor, WA : Logos research Systems, Inc., 1995, c1897

See:

Understand the spirit of antichrist (1 Jn 4:2-6). The Jesus test, the gospel test, and the fruit test

"[S]erp..."

Now I'm Serp'?

"We agree that God is holy, hates sin, Jesus is sinless, etc...The technical, theological, philosophical nuances are not a denial of these truths we both affirm."

Your god is not too different from man (2 Co 5:21; Heb 4:15; 7:26; 1 Jn 3:5). Jesus could not be corrupted (Ps. 16:10) during his visit to this toilet we call earth. If any part of him could have said "yes" to sin, wouldn't that make him a hypocrite when he comes to rule and reign? Is. 11:4, 5. Satan just caught him on a good day. Another day, he might have toyed with the idea of committing a sin (Matt. 4:1–10) . James 1:13.

Your god isn't worth worshipping.

"It is hard to reason with the unreasonable." [rapture]

"Where does he think he's going?" ~ Dr. Alan Grant Jer 9:24

Your god can't save anyone (1 Jn 1:5, Jn 1:29, Re 6:10, 7:14, 12:11, 21:23, 27).

"We are talking about the same God/Jesus, the sinless Lamb of God, Holy One..."

Why did God insist on a spotless offering? Le 22:19, 21, Mal 1:14.

"If my God is not worth worshipping, neither is yours (same one)..."

Your god is no God at all. Your Jesus is not the Jesus of scripture (1 Pe 1:19).

"Don't be a Calvinistic kook..."

Strawman.

I am not a Calvinist.

"...[I]f you don't affirm my wrong view of God's sovereignty..."

God is sovereign.

See:

Sovereignty of God

"...[Y]ou are denying God Himself..."

I reject your unholy god (Ex 15:11; 1 Sa 2:2). Your god doesn't pass the smell test (Ps 145:17).

"...[Y]our failure to understand doctrinal disputes such as the impeccability of Christ (my view is biblical, while yours is more Thomas Aquinas philosophical)..."

Strawman.

I reject Aquinas.

See:

Could Jesus have sinned (peccability or impeccability)? If Jesus could not have sinned, what was the point of the temptation?

"Shoo fly, don't bother me..."

The demons know the truth about him and they are going to hell (Mark 1:24).

Your Jesus would have died for his own sin not the sin of the world (Jn 1:29). You have no scriptural proof for your Jesus.

"Huh? Our Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh, risen from the dead. He is the sinless Lamb of God..."

The Godhead shares attributes of holiness (Ex 15:11; 1 Sa 2:2). Jesus is no less holy than the Father or the Spirit. Could the Father sin? Could the Holy Spirit sin? Support your claim that Jesus could have sinned. 2 Co 5:21; Heb 4:15; 7:26; 1 Jn 3:5.

Understand another [ἄλλος (allos) another of the same kind] helper (Jn 14:16).

See:

How to do the Impossible by Adrian Rogers (right click, open)

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "...You are beating him [Godrulz] over the head with semantics and you are being silly!"

His "Jesus" is not the Jesus of scripture (2 Co 5:21; Heb 4:15; 7:26; 1 Jn 3:5).

"Man's own religion usually descends to the fleshly life to which they themselves practice." ~ Jim Andrews Jer 17:9

"Saying it more often does not make your case."

Scripture makes my case.  He'll have to make 2 Co 5:21; Heb 4:15; 7:26 and 1 Jn 3:5 go away.

The physical properties of leprosy reveal a spiritual reality (Mk 1:41-42, Ps 24). No man but Jesus (2 Co 5:21; Heb 4:15; 7:26; 1 Jn 3:5) is without sin (1 Ki 8:46; Ec 7:20). No man can cleanse himself from sin (Job 9:30,31; Pr 20:9; Jer 2:22). No man can atone for his own sin (Mic 6:7). We need a savior (Jn 1:29; 1 Jn 3:5).

See:

Life of Jesus Volume 1: Jesus Tests and Builds Faith Pt 8a by Darrell Ferguson

"Jesus is sinless because He never sinned..."

Strawman

"Sin is volitional..."

"Under what condition would Jesus have submitted to an inner "yes" to sin? "This response is our unique contribution to reality. It is ours, it is us, and nothing else is (pg. 33-34, Willard)."

"It is not a straw man to say that Jesus is God..."

What meaning do you pour into the word "God"? Is your god like you? Jer 17:9. Our God is holy (Ps 99:9; Isa 5:16), perfect (Mt 5:48) and incorruptible (Ro 1:23).

"If there is no possibility for Jesus to obey or disobey..."

Strawman.

"Under what condition would Jesus have submitted to an inner "yes" to sin? "This response is our unique contribution to reality. It is ours, it is us, and nothing else is (pg. 33-34, Willard)."

["Under what condition would Jesus have submitted to an inner "yes" to sin? "This response is our unique contribution to reality. It is ours, it is us, and nothing else is (pg. 33-34, Willard)." :sleep:] "What is Willard's point?" 

Four months later, you don't understand the question? "Jesus would never have sinned under any circumstance..."

Why not?

"I think Willard is a free will theist, if not Open Theist..."

Strawman.

We're all pleased with your open view.

"...[H]e would likely agree with me, not you, on this point..."

Bandwagon

I don't worship Willard. Do you?

"It is not a straw man to affirm the humanity of Jesus and how He learned obedience through the things He suffered..."

Strawman.

How is Jesus (2 Co 5:21; Heb 4:15; 7:26; 1 Jn 3:5) different from other men born after Adam? Ge 5:3; Job 15:14; 25:4; Ps 51:5.

Jesus learned a comprehensive humility--even to death (Phil 2:8). His name is above all names (Phil 2:9). He will be your Lord or he will be your Judge. He is Lord (God, with all attributes of God). 1 Cor. 15:47.

See:

The Incarnation of the Triune God by John MacArthur

"If I was saying God is unholy, sinful, evil, Satan, etc., you would have a point..."

How is Jesus different from the Father and the Spirit?  What does [ἄλλος (allos) another of the same kind] mean to you? Jn 14:16

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "I have no idea what you think the point of Heb 4:15 is, if it doesn't really mean that Jesus can "sympathize with our weaknesses"?"

Jesus is compassionate (Mk 1:41). Did he become a leper before he healed the leper in Mark chapter 1? Mk 1:42, Lk 1:35; Ac 4:27; Re 3:7.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: [Originally posted by Delmar]: [From I have no idea what you think the point of Heb 4:15 is, if it doesn't really mean that Jesus can "sympathize with our weaknesses"?] [Originally posted by ghost:  "The difference here is that the reference is speaking of believers and our weaknesses."] "It is speaking of Jesus and believers. Jesus is human, more than human (God), while we are human. Jesus is sinless, while we are sinners."

He was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin (Heb 4:15).  

See:

Heb 4:15  McGee, MacArthur

"Allos/heteros is a distinction I have used, but if you read master Greek grammarians, it ...is a generalization that is not always true (Greek grammar is nuanced, complex, was evolving)."

Was it true in Jn 14:16?  Is Jesus [ἄλλος (allos) another of the same kind] of the godhead?  Was he lying?  Is he equal to the Father and the Spirit?

"Jesus is like the Father and HOLY Spirit."

Could the Father have sinned at any time?  Could the Holy Spirit have sinned at any time?

"Jesus is sinless..."
 

Under what condition would Jesus have submitted to an inner "yes" to sin? "This response is our unique contribution to reality. It is ours, it is us, and nothing else is (pg. 33-34, Willard)."

"I am not sure what he/you mean by this..."

Human beings, being conceived and born in sin (Ge 5:3; Job 15:14; 25:4; Ps 51:5), can say "yes" to sin (Jer 17:9). Jesus is like other men yet without sin (Heb 4:14). Was Jesus able to say "yes" to sin?

When Jesus touched the leper, he healed him (Mt 8:3). If you and I were to touch a leper, we would become infected. In the old testament, when a person touched something contaminated, he would be considered unclean.

When Jesus touched the leper, was he unclean? If not, why not?

See:

Life of Jesus Volume 1: Jesus Tests and Builds Faith Pt 8b by Darrell Ferguson

[When Jesus touched the leper, was he unclean? If not, why not?] "...Ceremonial laws are not the same as moral laws..."

Ceremonial laws teach us something.  Ritual cleansing teaches us a spiritual reality.  Leprosy is a picture of sin.  Because you cannot see sin, it is no less hideous to God (Isa 64:6).   

The answer is no.  Jesus was not considered unclean after touching the leper (Mk 1:41).  If we become contaminated, we cannot clean ourselves.  No man can cleanse himself from sin (Job 9:30,31; Pr 20:9; Jer 2:22). In the Old Testament, if a man touched and unclean thing, he himself would be considered unclean.  God is not like us.  With God it works the other way around. 

God requires pure hands and a clean heart (Ps 24:4).  We need his healing  (Mk 1:40-42).

"Part of your problem is a wrong view of original sin as espoused by Augustine..."

I reject Augustine.

Which of these doctrines do you agree with?

"Depravity -- the spiritual condition of man before God.
Imputation -- to reckon sin or righteousness to another's acocunt
Grace -- the fact of God's nature making Him spontaneously favorable in His dealings with man.
Propitiation -- the satisfaction of God's justice and righteousness through the atonement of Jesus Christ.
Atonement -- the vicarious (substitutionary), efficacious (producing the desired effect) death of Jesus Christ for human sin.
Renconciliation -- to restore to fellowship with God by removing the barriers preventing this.
Calling (efficacious) -- the work of God drawing men to Himself.
Regeneration -- the miraculous work of God making the human spirit alive to Himself and the imparting of eternal life to the individual believer.
Union with Christ -- the spiritually living union of the believer and Jesus Christ.
Conversion -- the human side of regeneration; turning to Christ in faith and repentance (leading to a change in both attitude and behavior).
Repentance -- changing one's mind (mental) and turning from sin (behavioral) (i.e., a change of attitude and action).
Faith -- trust in God, leading to right belief about Him, dependence upon Him, and right behavior toward Him.
Justification -- the forensic or legal declaration of God concerning the believer's absolute righteousness before Him as a result of his faith in Jesus Christ.
Adoption -- to be brought into the personal family of God.
Sanctification -- to be set apart to God's purposes (i.e., growth in relationship to and holiness toward God).
Eternal security -- the absolute security of the true believer with respect to his salvation from the point of regeneration.
Perseverance -- the continuation of the saints in faith unto death.
Election/predestination - to be chosen by God for salvation.
Redemption to remove one from slavery to sin and Satan by payment of a ransom (i.e., the atonement of Christ).
Death, resurrection, and the final state -- involving the physical/spiritual nature of death, the intermediate state, resurrection of the body, immortality, heaven and hell (the physical resurrection of the believer to eternal glory and the unbeliever to eternal ruin).
The church -- the collective body of true believers called out of the world by God for His glory who are joined together visibly in worship and invisibly in union with Christ and one another." http://www.apologeticsindex.org/c16.html

"...I reject TULIP as extra/contrabiblical."

I reject Calvinism as well but you'll no doubt forget that another 400 times.

See:

Does God Elect Everyone?

"We agree with verses properly interpreted..."

When you come up to Heb 4:15 rather than dragging Jesus down to your level (Jer 17:9), we'll agree.   

"...[W]e both agree that Jesus is sinless..."

Then you will be happy to retract this statement:

SD: “ Could he [jesus] have sinned?
Godrulz: “I believe He could have, but did not…” link

"...[Y]our Aquinas philosophical views..."

Strawman.

I reject Aquinas.

"What is the gist of the long article (does it conclude corporate or individual election/double predestination..."

Does it sound like it endorses double predestination? :rolleyes:

"...[Y]ou may be Calvinistic..."

:yawn: I am not.

"Are you Armenian"

"Open Theist"

Yes.

"Molinist"

No.

"Come out of the closet..."

:Plain: Ps 99:9; Isa 5:16

"I doubt you and I have read all of Aquinas. You could have some views in common with him..."

Scripture ( not Aquinas) is my authority (Pr 6:23; 2 Pe 1:19). Would you like to answer the question now?

"Under what condition would Jesus have submitted to an inner "yes" to sin? "This response is our unique contribution to reality. It is ours, it is us, and nothing else is (pg. 33-34, Willard)."

"If you are Open Theist, why do we disagree so much?"

There are other topics besides open theism.

"Scripture is my authority..."

Then you will agree with God.  Jesus is like other men yet without sin (Heb 4:15).

"...[S]o what does a Willard quote have to do with Scripture?"

It's a question that you have been unwilling to answer for four months.

"I asked you for the source of the quote..."

Renovation of the Heart: Putting on the Character of Christ by by Dallas Willard

"...and your understanding of it."

There is no condition under which Jesus would have submitted to an inner "yes" to sin (Heb 4:15).

["Under what condition would Jesus have submitted to an inner "yes" to sin? "This response is our unique contribution to reality. It is ours, it is us, and nothing else is (pg. 33-34, Willard)." ] "I commented on it, but you must not have liked my answer."

Please provide that link.

Man was not created to die (Gen. 1:26–28; 2:7; 1 Cor. 15:45; 1 Tim. 2:13). Adam, the first man in the garden of Eden, was disobedient (Gen. 3; Job 31:33; Isa. 43:27; Hos. 6:7; Rom. 5:14–21; 1 Tim. 2:14). He brought sin into the world (1 Cor. 15:22, 45).

[Edited notes: The Garden Tomb & Jerusalem by Woodrow Kroll] We have redemption in Christ (Ro 8:1). God sent His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh (Ro 8:3). We have been made free from sin and death. Sin entered the world by one man's disobedience.

Christ was obedient to the Father. By Adam, man lost eternal life. In Christ, man can obtain eternal life again (Jn 14:19). In the first garden, there was loss (Gen 3:23) In the second garden, there was restoration (Matt. 26:36–50). In the first garden paradise was lost. By Christ's work in the second garden, paradise will be restored.

Now, we can be raised from the dead. We can live eternally because of his adequate sacrifice. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me (Ga 2:20). God fixed what Satan ruined. The Garden Tomb & Jerusalem by Woodrow Kroll

"Perhaps your version of OT is different than mind? Perhaps I am confusing you with someone else?"

Great. You're ready to answer the question.

[Under what condition would Jesus have submitted to an inner "yes" to sin? "This response is our unique contribution to reality. It is ours, it is us, and nothing else is (pg. 33-34, Willard)."] Hello out there.  Hello out there.

"I already said I have not read the whole context of the quote..."

It is here.

"Sin is moral/volitional, not metaphysical/genetic/substance."

Does man have a bent toward sin? Ge 5:3; Job 15:14; 25:4; Ps 51:5

"Yes..."

Did Jesus at any time have a bent toward sin?  2 Co 5:21; Heb 4:15; 7:26; 1Jn 3:5.  If not, why not?

"No..."

Why not? The godhead shares attributes of holiness (Ex 15:11; 1 Sa 2:2). Is Jesus less holy that the Father or the Spirit? Could the Father have sinned? Could the Holy Spirit have sinned sin? Support your claim that Jesus could have sinned. 2 Co 5:21; Heb 4:15; 7:26; 1 Jn 3:5. Is he [ἄλλος (allos) another of the same kind] like the Father and like the Spirit? Jn 14:16.

"...[D]eity, the divine quality that distinguishes God from other entities (Rom. 1:20; Col. 2:9); therefore God cannot be likened to any created thing, however precious (Acts 17:29)." Achtemeier, Paul J. ; Harper & Row, Publishers ; Society of Biblical Literature: Harper's Bible Dictionary. 1st ed. San Francisco : Harper & Row, 1985, S. 216

[Jesus] "His love and intelligence..."

What does Phil 2:9 mean to you?  What do you think about the resurrection?

"...3 personal distinctions who are co-equal, co-eternal, co-essential, not 3 gods..."

Which member of the godhead could have sinned? Acts 17:29. 

"Jesus was the only one who incarnated/took on flesh..."

Why did Jesus come? Jn 10:10.  What is man's need? 2 Tim. 1:10.  Is Jesus perfectly righteous or flawed? Heb. 5:8, 9.

"I agree with you on all these points."

Then responding to the question should come naturally (Jn 16:14).