Michael the Archangel is Jesus
Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: [JWs and SDAs make this statement. Some SDAs are trinitarians, while JWs are Arians (Christ as creature). Col. 1 and Heb. 1 shows that Jesus is Creator of angels, superior to them, not one of them. Beloved claims to be Calvinist, yet he is going down a heretical path on this one...JWs are not Christians because they do not worship Jesus as YHWH. Mormons are not Christians because they are polytheists/plurality of gods...The biblical understanding is triune and incarnational...Michael The Arch Angel is Jesus Christ...1 Thess 4:16-17; Isa 14:14; Rev 12:16; Jn 5:25-29..."
Learn about Jehovah's Witnesses' denial of the historical, Biblical Jesus. "They do not believe that Jesus is the preeminent one, the first born over all creation, the second member of the trinity, the one who "spoke and the universe leap into existence (Hanegraaff)."
See:
10 Questions & Answers: Jehovah's Witnesses
Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]:
[Phil 2:6]
Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: [Michael/Gabriel]
Angels are created beings (Ps. 148:2, 5; Col. 1:16). Jesus is the Creator ( John 1:3, 10; 1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:16, 17; Heb. 1:2, 10; Rev. 3:14). Jesus is not the archangel Michael that Jehovah's false witnesses say he is. Angels were created by God and Christ (Ne 9:6; Col 1:16). They correctly worship God and Christ (Ne 9:6; Php 2:9-11; Heb 1:6). They communicate the will of God and Christ (Da 8:16,17; 9:21-23; 10:11; 12:6,7; Mt 2:13,20; Lu 1:19,28; Ac 5:20; 8:26; 10:5; 27:23; Re 1:1). The angels execute the purposes of God (Nu 22:22; Ps 103:21; Mt 13:39-42; 28:2; Joh 5:4; Re 5:2.) and the judgments of God ( 2Sa 24:16; 2Ki 19:35; Ps 35:5,6; Ac 12:23; Re 16:1).
Gabriel and Michael are important angels but they are not to be worshipped.
"[A]ngel of the Lord (or angel of Yahweh), a figure appearing frequently in the ot (Gen. 16:7-13; 22:11; Exod. 3:2; Num. 22:22; Judg. 13:3; Zech. 1:11; 3:1, to cite only a few references) and also in the nt (Luke 2:9-15). References to this figure usually occur when something dramatic and meaningful is about to happen, generally with serious consequences, either good or ill, for God’s people. The angel of the Lord seems to have been understood as distinct from other angels and, in the earlier ot literature, appears to be almost another designation for God. In most cases, however, the angel of the Lord served primarily as a messenger from God to the people to prepare the way for God’s appearance and activity. In some passages, the term probably only designates ‘an’ angel of God (e.g., 1 Kings 19:4-8).""Learn about Jehovah's Witnesses' denial of the historical, Biblical Jesus. "They do not believe that Jesus is the preeminent one, the first born over all creation, the second member of the trinity, the one who "spoke and the universe leap into existence (Hanegraaff)."
See:
10 Questions & Answers Jehovah's Witnesses
Recommended websites:
Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: [1 Cor 8:6]
[Re 4:11]
Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: "[Was Jesus] firstborn of every creature[?]"
Yes. Firstborn over creation (Col. 1:15). Note the parallel verses:
15 He is dthe image of the invisible God, ethe firstborn over all creation."Manhood before creation[?]"
No. Jesus took on human flesh (Jn 1:14). He is now and will forever be 100% man and 100% God. The apostle John made this clear: Jesus (man) Christ (God) [1 Jn 1:7].
Response to comment [from other]: "So honoring Jesus as 'the Christ' (Anointed), or by the name of 'Michael' (one Like God) is all relative and keeping to the spiritual reality..."
No. The apostle Paul warned of false teachers (Gal. 1:6–8). They are subtle and covetous (Rogers). We are to try them and test their claims based on the word of God.
A person will receive the truth if he is of God. The apostle John said: "We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error (1 Jn 4:5-6)."
Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: "He was brought forth."
He lowered himself to become man (Jn 1:14). There was never a time when he did not exist (Gen. 1:26; Psa. 102:25–27 with Heb. 1:8–12.Prov. 8:22–36; John 1:1–3; John 3:13; John 6:62; John 8:56–58; John 17:5; Rom. 11:36; 1 Cor. 8:6; Phil. 2:5–7; Col. 1:15–17; Heb. 1:1, 2; Heb. 2:9, 14–16; Rev. 4:11).
"...[P]rior to that He was Flesh and Spirit, A Heavenly Flesh, much as it is now."
That is incorrect. His nature was all new at his incarnation (Jn 1:14). He will forever be 100% man and 100% God. The apostle John made this clear Jesus (man) Christ (God) [1 Jn 1:3].
Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: "You need to look at my thread on Jesus the man from heaven."
"Proverbs
8:22, 23 says, “The LORD possessed me at the beginning
of His way, Before His works of old. I have been
established from everlasting, from the beginning, before
there was ever an earth.”
Jehovah’s Witnesses teach:
The Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that Jesus was a created
being and the “earliest” of God achievements.
“Many professed Christian writers of the early centuries
of the Common Era understood this section to refer
symbolically to God’s Son in his prehuman state…there
can be no denying that that Son was ‘produced’ by
Jehovah ‘as the beginning of his way, the earliest of
his achievements of long ago,’ nor that the Son was
‘beside [Jehovah] as a master worker’ during earth’s
creation.” (Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971, pg. 918)
The Bible teaches:
The Jehovah’s Witnesses interpretation of Proverbs 8
violates the context of Proverbs. The first nine
chapters of Proverbs deals with wisdom personified thus
the wisdom talked about in Proverbs 8 is NOT referring
to Jesus.
For example, if we take Proverbs 8:22-30 to literally
mean Christ, than we have to take literally that Jesus
is a women who cries in the streets (1:20-21), who lives
with someone named ‘Prudence’ (8:12) in a house with
seven pillars (9:1).
It’s worth noting that no New Testament writer
attributes Proverbs 8 to Jesus and simply put, Proverbs
8 is a personification of wisdom used in a poetic style
for the purpose of emphasis and impact.
Matthew 19:16, 17 says, “Now behold, one came and said to Him, ‘Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?’ So He said to him, ‘Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments...’” Verses Jehovah's Witnesses Use to Deny Christ's Deity. Calvary Aurora.
See:
Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: [Mt 11:19]
"11:16-19. Jesus compared that generation to a group of little children sitting in the marketplaces who could not be pleased by anything. Like children rejecting the suggestions to “play” wedding (flute . . . dance) or funeral (dirge . . . mourn) music, the people rejected both John and Jesus. They were not satisfied with John the Baptist because he did not eat or drink, or with Jesus who did eat and drink with sinners. They said John had a demon, and they rejected Jesus as a glutton and a drunkard and a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.” Though that generation was not happy with anything, the wisdom of the approach of both John and Jesus would be proved right by the results, namely, that many people would be brought into the kingdom."
[Ps 2:7]
[Ac 13:33]
[Col 1:15]
"Colossians 1:15
says, “He is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn over all creation.”
Jehovah’s Witnesses teach…
To Jehovah’s Witnesses, this verse obviously
“proves” that Jesus had a beginning at a
point in time since He is the “firstborn
over all creation”. They teach that God
created Jesus, known as Michael the
archangel before His incarnation, and then
Jesus created all [other] things.
“the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus
in his prehuman existence) as God’s first
creation, his firstborn Son.” (Aid to Bible
Understanding, 1971, pg. 918)
The Bible teaches…
The Jehovah’s Witnesses confuse the word
firstborn [Greek: prototokos] with the word
first created [Greek: protoktsis].
Protoktsis or first created is never used of
Jesus in the New Testament.
Firstborn means “heir, superior and
pre-immanent in rank above all.” In other
words, Jesus is “heir and superior over all
creation.”
In Hebrew culture, the “firstborn” was the
son in the family who was in the pre-eminent
position and not necessarily the one
chronologically born first.
For example, in Genesis 41:50-51, Ephraim
was physically born after Manasseh yet
Ephraim was the “firstborn” or pre-eminent
according to Jeremiah 31:9.
Again, David was the last child born to
Jesse (1 Samuel 16:10-11) but God says in
Psalm 89:20, 27 that He “will make him My
firstborn”, in other words, His
pre-eminent."
[Re 3:14]
Revelation 3:14 says,
“And to the angel of the church of the
Laodiceans write, 'These things says the
Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the
Beginning of the creation of God:”
Jehovah’s Witnesses teach…
This is a favorite verse of the Jehovah’s
Witnesses to “prove” that Jesus had a
beginning and was the first “creation of
God.” They will say, “See, Jesus is the
beginning of the creation.”
“Jehovah’s first creation was his
‘only-begotten Son’ (John 3:16), ‘the
beginning of the creation by God.’ (Rev.
3:14)…After creating his only-begotten Son,
Jehovah used him in bringing the heavenly
angels into existence.” (Aid to Bible
Understanding, 1971, pg. 390, 391)
The Bible teaches…
The word beginning [Greek: arche] means
“originator, designer, first cause,
superior”.
Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon says arche
means “that by which anything begins to be,
the origin, active cause”
Vincent’s Word Studies in the New
Testament says arche means “The beginner, or
author”
The New International Version of the Bible
translates arche as “ruler” or “the ruler of
God’s creation.”
Chuck Smith says in his book, What is the
World Coming To, “Jesus is the origination
of the creation powers or the origin of
God’s creation. So He is actually the
creative force, and that’s what Revelation
is speaking of here – the creative force of
the creation of God.”
Dr. John MacArthur says, “Arche
(Beginning) does not mean that Christ was
the first person God created, but rather
that Christ Himself is the source or origin
of creation (cf. Rev. 22:13). Through His
power everything was created (John 1:3; Heb.
1:2).”
We get the English words architect and
archbishop indicating “someone who builds or
who rules over something”.
Arche is also used of God (Revelation 1:8;
21:6: 22:13) in regards to Him being “the
beginning [arche] and the end.” We cannot
say that God thus had a beginning but
instead, these verses mean that God was “the
origin and active cause” of all things..."
Full text Verses Jehovah's Witnesses
Use to Deny Christ's Deity (MS Word).
Calvary Aurora: Apologetics
[Eccl 9:10]
[Re 20:13]
[Ps 16:10]
[Ac 2:27]
[Mt 5:5]
[Ps 37:10-11]
[Ps 37:29]
[Pr 2:21-22]
Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: "[W]isdom personified is feminine simply because the noun "wisdom" has female gender in both Hebrew and Greek. There is no reason why it cannot represent Jesus."
Jesus is wisdom (Jn 14:6). Wisdom in the Bible is pictured as a woman. And spiritual wisdom is different than worldly wisdom.
Spiritual wisdom:
Num. 27:21; Judg. 20:18; 1 Kin. 3:7, 9 2 Chr. 1:10. 1 Kin. 8:36; Job 34:32; Psa. 5:8; Psa. 25:4, 5; Psa. 27:11; Psa. 31:3; Psa. 39:4; Psa. 43:3; Psa. 86:11; Psa. 90:12; Psa. 119:12, 19, 26, 27, 33, 34, 66, 68, 73, 80, 124, 125, 135, 144, 169, 171; Psa. 139:24; Eph. 1:16–19; Eph. 3:14–19; Eph. 6:18–20; Phil. 1:9, 10; Col. 1:9, 10; Col. 2:1–3; Col. 4:2–4; 2 Tim. 2:7; Jas. 1:5Worldly wisdom:
Gen. 3:6, 7; Job 4:18–21; Job 5:13; Job 11:2, 12; Job 37:24; Prov. 3:7; Prov. 15:21, 22; Prov. 16:25; Prov. 17:2, 10; Prov. 18:1; Prov. 20:18; Prov. 21:20, 22, 30; Prov. 24:3–7; Prov. 28:11; Eccl. 1:18; Eccl. 2:1–26; Eccl. 7:11–13, 16–25; Eccl. 8:1, 16, 17; Eccl. 10:2, 3, 10; Isa. 5:21; Isa. 28:24–29; Isa. 29:14–16; Isa. 47:10, 11; Jer. 8:7–9; Jer. 9:23, 24; Jer. 49:7; Matt. 6:23; Matt. 7:24–27; Matt. 11:25 Luke 10:21. Luke 16:8; Rom. 1:21–23; 1 Cor. 1:17–26; 1 Cor. 2:1–14; 1 Cor. 3:18–20; 1 Cor. 8:1, 2; 2 Cor. 1:12; Col. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:20, 21.Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: "You need to take a look at my Thread, [J]esus the man from heaven, or you can look at the one I have on the Deity of Christ..."
"The bottom line is that over and over again, The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society misinterprets Scripture, blatantly perverts the Deity of Jesus Christ, goes against all the best Greek manuscripts and rewrites their version of the Bible, i.e. The New World Translation to the determent of its followers.
Jesus Christ is not just “a god”, the first of Jehovah’s created beings but is God Almighty Himself and Scripture bares that out over and over again..." Full text: Verses Jehovah's Witnesses Use to Deny Christ's Deity (MS Word)
Also see:
What is the definition of a cult? What are the beliefs that cause a group to be considered a cult?
What does the Bible say about organ donation / donating blood? Should a Christian donate blood to be used for blood transfusions?
Questions about Cults & Religions: What is the definition of a cult? What is the right religion for me? Is Jesus the only way of salvation?
Recommended Resources:
Correcting the Cults by Norman L. Geisler
Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Jehovah’s Witnesses by Ron Rhodes
Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses Subject by Subject by David A. Reed
Jehovah’s Witnesses Answered Verse by Verse by David A. Reed
Why You Should Believe in the Trinity by Robert M. Bowman, Jr.
[Job 18:13]
[Ro 8:29]
[Re 22:13]
[Lk 12:11]
And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
[Re 3:4]
[1 Cor 8:6]
Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: "[S]erpent. Have you looked at the other threads I recommended?"
Yes, and I reject the claims. Jesus is Lord (Jn 1:1).
Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: "No? Then how could Lazarus in sheol/hades carry a drop of water on his finger? (Luke 16:24)"
Jesus was/is higher than any angel. Why do you think God called David his "servant"?
Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness] "Jesus was sent by the Father, He was an Messenger which is the same as a Angel. Angel and Messenger are the same word."
From Godrulz: "theos can be used of God Almighty or Satan or stone idols (gods). Just because they are the same word, does not make God an idol or Satan. You seem to follow this distorted logic in making Jesus the angel Michael. Why can't you accept that Jesus is the Lord of angels and Michael is a chief angel, but not Lord (Jude 9)? Your argument is false and grasping at straws to support your preconceived error.
Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: [To C Moore] "You don't understand the bible, your under the power of the antichrist, and unless your an elect, your on your way to hell..."
You claimed not to be a Jehovah's Witness. They teach that there is no hell (which is unbiblical). Do you believe there is no hell?
Response to comment [from Elohiym]: "...[T]ell me why Jesus will come with the voice of an archangel (a chief messenger) if he is not capable of being an archangel? 1 Thessalonians 4:16."
Is Jesus the archangel Michael? Is he a created being? Or, is he the creator of the heavens and the earth?
Response to comment [from Elohiym] "Jesus is the chief messenger (archangel). Michael is just one the 100+ different titles given to Christ Jesus throughout scripture."
That makes your position pretty clear. That puts you in the kingdom of the cults not Christianity. Why are you calling yourself "Christian" here? Are you in actuality a Jehovah's Witness?
"I see you are only on a witch hunt...I am a Christian..."
If you believe that Jesus was a created being, you are not a Christian. That belief puts you in the kingdom of the cults.
See:
Response to comment [from Elohiym]: "If you deny that Jesus came in the flesh (created), you have the spirit of antichrist (1Jo 4:3). And if you think that I am going to participate in your little inquisition, you are delusional."
Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christian. The verse you quote refers to the testimony of the Holy Spirit inside you. If you do not have Jesus, you do not have life (1 Jn 5:12).
Whether a person denies Jesus in the flesh (that he was born of a virgin, lived the perfect life that neither you and could live, died and rose again) or denies Jesus in the spirit (his deity [Christ is his divine title], he is an antichrist (1 Jn 4:3).
If you question this, repent of your sin and ask the Holy Spirit to make Jesus real to you. Is Jesus God? Ask the Holy Spirit.
"I believe Christ Jesus is God."
Jehovah's Witnesses claim this too. But they do not worship the real Jesus. They worship a false Jesus. You said: "Jesus is the chief messenger (archangel). Michael is just one the 100+ different titles given to Christ Jesus throughout scripture." [Michael the Arch Angel is Jesus Christ January 18th, 2009, 11:48 AM http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1946163#post1946163]
What about "given to Christ" do I fail to understand?
"...[Y]ou are not interested in truth, just interested pursuing your self-appointed task of heretic hunting."
I am interested in knowing who I am speaking to and so are others at TOL. Do you deny that Jesus spoke and the universe leapt into existence? (Jn 1:1-3). Is he the uncreated creator?