Question for non-Calvinists
Simpletruther
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Do you think there are people in hell, who might have been saved, if only
someone had been more passionate about sharing the gospel? I wanted to see
how many answer yes and no.
Men are responsible for the light shown them.[1]
God gave them what they demanded.[2]
[1]
Responsibility is increased by: sight (John 9:39-41), privilege (John 15:22,
24), opportunity (Matt. 11:20-24), continuance in sin (Matt. 23:31-35),
rejection (Matt. 10:11-15). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson's quick
reference topical Bible index (p. 529). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.
[2]
Neither fallen angels nor unregenerate men have been thrown into the lake of
fire yet (Rev. 19:20).
Simpletruther replied
Could some of them have been saved, if only a believer had been more motivated
to preach the gospel to them?
Why would a Calvinist be motivated to preach the gospel? They can take the day
off. God demanded that they love him and they supposedly do. They have no choice
but to be saved.
David1701 replied
Of course, Calvinism doesn't teach that God will make sure that the elect are
saved, no matter what. It's the "no matter what" part that is the problem. It
contains unwritten assumptions that some things that happen were not planned by
God
.
God predetermined that you would say that. Take the day off. He predetermined
that, too.
Simpletruther replied
Does this mean vast numbers of people are in heaven simply because they were
never given any light, and thus have no responsibility?
Everyone has light. Everyone has responsible before God. Helen Keller got it.
Men have internal testimony (Ro 2:15), external testimony (Ps 19:1) and the
scriptures (Jas 1:18). They are without excuse (Ro 1:20).
Theo1689 replied
[Why would a Calvinist be motivated to preach the gospel?]
1) Because God is our Lord and He commanded us to.
2) Because Jesus is our Lord and He commanded us to.
3) Because we love God and we want to share this love with others.
4) Because we love Jesus and we want to share this love with others.
5) Because we love the gospel and we want to share this love with others.
6) Because we want to be part of God's work in saving His people.
7) Because the preaching of the gospel is the means by which God draws His
people to Himself.
How many reasons do you need?
God forced you to love him and so you do.
He's unhealthy but you love him anyway.
David1701 replied
If all you're going to do is mock our beliefs
...
God predetermined that I'd mock your beliefs. Why are you dissing on God's DVD
in the sky? If you don't like this part, then fast forward through it. God
predetermined that you would.
...Why are you still here? You're thinking about not doing what was
predetermined for you? That will mess up the space time continuum and you'll
thrust us into an alternate quantum reality.
I threw in the word
quantum to impress you because it was predetermined that I would.
Do you know what Jesus taught about mockers and scoffers?
Do you know what Greek pagans taught?
Theo1689 replied
So seven reasons wasn't [sic] enough for you.
I can't think of anything more worthless than the prayer of a Calvinist (except
for that of a Catholic).
[A god who demands love] He's not the least bit "unhealthy". But it's
interesting to know that you hate God.
Your god, yes. He needs therapy--and you need a restraining order.
Predestination and Will: How are predestination and election connected
with foreknowledge?
Reply to J*****n
Worldly wisdom fails because...
For godly sorrow produces
repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the
world produces death. The New King James Version. (1982). (2 Co 7:10).
Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
Supposes that
the message of Christ crucified is stupid keeping in mind that worldly wisdom
does not exclude a belief in a God and/or a heaven, what would
Believe
in the original language means "to be convinced".
10:9 confess … the Lord
Jesus. Not a simple acknowledgment that He is God and the Lord of the universe,
since even demons acknowledge that to be true (James 2:19). This is the deep
personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person’s own master
or sovereign. This phrase includes repenting from sin, trusting in Jesus for
salvation, and submitting to Him as Lord. This is the volitional element of
faith (see note on 1:16). believe in your heart. See note on 1:16. God has
raised Him from the dead. Christ’s resurrection was the supreme validation of
His ministry (cf. John 2:18–21). Belief in it is necessary for salvation because
it proved that Christ is who He claimed to be and that the Father had accepted
His sacrifice in the place of sinners (4:24; cf. Acts 13:32, 33; 1 Pet. 1:3, 4).
Without the resurrection, there is no salvation (1 Cor. 15:14–17). See note on
1:4. will be saved. See note on 1:16.
10:10 confession. This Gr.
word basically means to say the same thing, or to be in agreement with someone.
The person who confesses Jesus as Lord (v. 9), agrees with the Father’s
declaration that Jesus is Savior and Lord.
10:11 Quoted from Is.
28:16 and 49:23. This quotation not only demonstrates that salvation by grace
through faith alone has always been God’s salvation plan, but that no
one—including Gentiles—was ever to be excluded (1:16; 3:21, 22; 2 Pet. 3:9; see
also Jon. 3:5).
Gr. Greek
MacArthur, John Jr: The
MacArthur Study Bible. electronic ed. Nashville : Word Pub., 1997, c1997, S. Ro
10:9 Full text:
Armor of the Lord
What should our view of non-Christians be?
They are prisoners of war
(Jn 8:34). They claim to have peace; but, they do not (Is 48:22).
Why don’t we as believers get to boast when we get to heaven?
That won’t be our heart.
And that I had
faith there by making God obligated to save me? I heard, I chose to
surrender, I chose to trust, I did it.
Now when they heard this,
they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men
and brethren, what shall we do?”
Then Peter said to them,
“Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for
the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Ac
2:37–38).
We responded (turned
(Acts 9:35), repented (Acts 8:22), returned (1 Sam. 7:3). God gets the
glory (Heb 12:2a).
Josheb replied
[It’s his creation. He can do with it what he’d like. Those who
need to die are going to die (Rev. 6:16, 17).] Yes, He can do with it what He
wants. The question is, "Why would he want to destroy His own creation?
Same reason he wanted to rid the planet of the wicked the last
time during Noah’s flood. You thought God would let this evil go on
forever? Ps 50:21
No one gets elected unless God chooses them.
Period.
And God has chosen everyone. Period (Jn 3:16, 2 Pe 3:9).
Pre-rapture election and post-rapture
election is still election.
If you’d like to be one of God’s elect, trust in him (Ac 17:27).
The Bible states quite plainly, "You did not
choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear
fruit..." (Jn. 15:16).
The offer is available to everyone. Everyone goes to heaven by choice. Everyone goes to hell by choice. God is just (Deut. 32:4).
… We are saved by grace through faith for works…
So are non-elites
(2 Pe 2:1).
[Augustine] …You should read the actual truthful account of Augustine's
conversion in A.D. 386, truly a miracle and an awesome display of God's grace,
mercy, and to His glory.
Only God
knows his heart. Unfortunately,
superstition
No fan of
Augustine or Romanism. The RCC is the Great Whore of Babylon
(Jud 11). Christians are commanded to come out of her (Re
18:4).
The only influence Augustine could of had on Aquinas, Luther, and Calvin would
have been very truthful, very scriptural, very biblical.
Martin Luther
was a rabid anti-Semite.
He wanted Jews to be murdered and he wasn’t shy about saying so.
Kudos to him
for the Reformation; but, because the pulpits in Europe did not challenge
Romanism and millions of Jews and believers were murdered.
…[F]alse teachers discredit Augustine…
Augustine
is the false teacher (2 Pe 2:1).
Same with Aquinas, Luther and Calvin.
A
Calvinist says I hope God loves you. A Christian
says I know God loves you (Jn 3:16).
…It is no different than the false teachers discrediting of Paul…
Paul was
taught by Jesus himself without human beings tainting his doctrine.
…[A]nd spreading false accusations…
He
admitted as much, himself. These concepts:
God is picking on you if you’ve been hit by a lightning bolt; God is
outside of time; Elites were chosen
before having made a decision for Christ (e.g. fate), etc. are not rooted in
scripture. They are rooted in Greek pagan thought.
It is for the Christian root out error and return to the truth of the
scriptures (Ps. 119:160).
Reply to Deborah Dugger
God is My Heavenly Father who loved me so very much that
He had a plan for me before i was even born…
He had a plan for everyone before they were born (Jn 3:16).