Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

Sonnet View Post
The doctrine of unconditional election and reprobation would seem to be the most awful case of discrimination we as humans could ever conceive of. God predetermines who will be saved and who will be passed by and Man has absolutely no say in the matter. It's dreadfulness needs no further explanation.

The seared conscience (1 Ti 4:2) is the reprobate mind (Ro 1:28). The OSAS greasy gracers who only give mental assent to the gospel believe that they can live for the devil and be saved (Jas 2:26). That's false (Ro 6:1-2). There is a time when God washes his hands of an individual (Ge 6:3).

If one is concerned about his salvation (e.g. he believes that one sin will cause him to go to hell), then he does not have the seared conscience.  If his conscience were seared, he wouldn't give a damn.

See:

Predestination and Will: How are predestination and election connected with foreknowledge?
Does God Elect Everyone?

Related:

Lordship
Has the Law has been done away with?
At patrick jane At john w At Nick At SaultoPaul At Musterion At heir At GloryDaz At exminister At Grosnick Marowbe
Must We Confess Every Sin?
Give Your Life to Jesus
How Many on TOL are Grace Gospel Believers?
Where is Prince Now?
Kirk Cameron: Wives Should 'Honor and Respect and Follow Their Husband's Lead'
The Myth of Unmerited Favor and Grace
The Big Switch
Did Paul teach obedience?
Where Is Muhammad Ali Now?
 

Sonnet View Post
...Calvinists cannot point to but one scripture that explicitly teaches limited atonement....The extent of Christ's provision is a weighty matter rather.

They'll need to make John 3:16 go away.

That I think it totally obvious that scripture teaches a genuine sacrifice for all without exception isn't a failure...

It's not a failure on God's part. A man can look into his fishbowl and say that fish loves me. He can look into his birdcage and say that bird loves me. Well sure. The fish can't get out of his bowl and the bird can't get out of his cage. Men must choose to love God--or not. They must be tested to see if their love is genuine.

Tests of Faith, by: difficult demands (Gen. 12:1, 2), severe trials (Job 1:6–22), prosperity of the wicked (Ps. 73:1–28), hardships (2 Cor. 11:21–33). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (p. 612). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

I didn't say I believed one over the other. I am simply looking at what scripture claims and assessing it.  And some folk say that Christ didn't die for all and that God chose whom He would pass by. Pretty shocking...

And you're schooling a few Christians here by the way.

Think about what's actually occurring when a Calvinist tells an unbeliever to believe in Christ's resurrection from the dead so that he might be saved. The preacher doesn't believe that Christ died for all, nor rose for all...

He's preaching an impotent message. He knows that you'll be saved or you won't and it's not up to his message. Why does he preach at all? He should go get an honest job.

Throw out the doctrine and the problem vanishes.

Throw out the doctrine and he's got to start preaching. Challenge him--preach preacher. Mock him. You call that preaching preacher? Wait 'til he finds out it did matter.

His god is evil. He watches us all on his television when he could fast forward through to the end of our lives--send respective souls to heaven or hell already.

...Tomorrow, your baby is going to be eaten by an alligator at Disney World. Let me go pop some more popcorn.

Part of the reason I fell away was because of Calvinism's assertions.

Their god is a monster not worthy of worship. Our God is loving and just.

Why would he make a being in his image who never really got a choice to choose him at all? It's sort of insulting himself, isn't it?

How can he hold a being responsible for making a wrong choice when he didn't get a choice?

Why ask his followers to love others when the ones they love will burn for all eternity? Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all? Ro 9:3, Mt 26:24

Eagles Wings View Post
Only those who believe in God's only begotten Son will go to heaven, and that limits the atonement. It is a statement of identity, right?  Who believes? Those whom the Father draws. John 6:44 (KJV)

The Holy Spirit tries to woo men to himself. Refusing his love is an offense worthy of eternal damnation. To say he never even bothered to woo and win and individual to himself is false. Matt. 12:31, 32

SD, based on John 3:16, would you agree that God gave His only begotten Son, for those who believe in Him?

God have his only begotten Son so whosoever would believe would believe. What does world and whosoever mean to you? Jn 3:16 KJV God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to him. What does any and all mean to you? 2 Pe 3:9 God is not far from any one of us. What does us mean to you? Ac 17:27

Sonnet View Post
It was more of a focus on 'hope' in 1 Peter 3:15. I'm looking at how such good news as the Calvinist interprets it might be explained. I don't see any good news in the theology - more a total focus on man's depravity that permits election/reprobation without impugning God's character.

Kinda good news. Kinda good news but you failed to read the fine print non-elect. Depends on what the meaning of good is.

You impugn God's character less than they do daily.

[To another member] Just acknowledge the fact that you cannot provide but one scripture that explicitly substantiates limited atonement.

These are the same people who believe that God sees a future that doesn't exist.

Peter would deny him three times before the rooster crowed. He had to see into the future they say (an idea that comes from Greek paganism not scripture [God outside of time, fate, etc.]). God could pinch and rooster to make it crow. No rooster around? God could make a bunny rabbit crow if need be. God has a plan. He's calling out a people for his namesake. Whosoever will--will be his. Whosoever won't--won't be his. That's it. You're interested in Jesus? You hear his voice? You're his. You're not interested in Jesus? Don't hear his voice? You're not his.

Eagles Wings View Post
I believe that God saves whomever He wills to save. Bottom line.

That's another thing--he'll save anyone he wants to save.
Nang View Post
No "trying" or "wooing" tactics employed by God Almighty.  Persuasions unnecessary . . . God's will be done despite any ignorant, unbelieving, emotional, rebellious responses from His creatures.

Why ask? Why pray? Why wrestle with God?

Jacob got his hip dislocated--he still wouldn't let go of God until he got the blessing. I think you let go too soon.

Jacob Wrestles with God

Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. When the man saw that He could not defeat him, He struck Jacob’s hip socket as they wrestled and dislocated his hip. Then He said to Jacob, “Let Me go, for it is daybreak.”

But Jacob said, “I will not let You go unless You bless me.”

“What is your name?” the man asked.

“Jacob,” he replied.

“Your name will no longer be Jacob,” He said. “It will be Israel because you have struggled with God and with men and have prevailed.”

Then Jacob asked Him, “Please tell me Your name.”

But He answered, “Why do you ask My name?” And He blessed him there.

Jacob then named the place Peniel, “For I have seen God face to face,” he said, “and I have been delivered.” The sun shone on him as he passed by Penuel—limping because of his hip. That is why, to this day, the Israelites don’t eat the thigh muscle that is at the hip socket: because He struck Jacob’s hip socket at the thigh muscle (Ge 32:24–32).

[He'll save anyone he wants to save. ] Yep. John 5:21

Does intercessory prayer mean a thing to you? Rom. 10:1–4

"When I pray for others..."

Why? God already knows who will be saved and who won't. You won't change his mind. Why bother to speak with him at all? Ge 22:12

...if He so sovereignly wills to gather them into His Kingdom. It is His call . . not mine, nor theirs.

Good night son. If God wills for you to be saved, you will be saved. Otherwise, you'll burn in hell. Good luck with that.  

[Why pray?] God knows, but I do not. I will not change His mind, but I pray with acceptance and faith that He is wiser than I [sic], so that if He withholds salvation from those I pray for, He has reason.

Why pray?  You could be playing foosball.

It shows a serious lack of faith for anyone to pray to God with the intention of "changing God's mind."

Take it up with Abraham:

Then Abraham came near and said, “Will you indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked?  Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city; will you then sweep away the place and not forgive it for the fifty righteous who are in it?  Far be it from you to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from you! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do what is just?” And the LORD said, “If I find at Sodom fifty righteous in the city, I will forgive the whole place for their sake.” Abraham answered, “Let me take it upon myself to speak to the Lord, I who am but dust and ashes. Suppose five of the fifty righteous are lacking? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five?” And he said, “I will not destroy it if I find forty-five there.”  Again he spoke to him, “Suppose forty are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of forty I will not do it.”  Then he said, “Oh do not let the Lord be angry if I speak. Suppose thirty are found there.” He answered, “I will not do it, if I find thirty there.”  He said, “Let me take it upon myself to speak to the Lord. Suppose twenty are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of twenty I will not destroy it.”  Then he said, “Oh do not let the Lord be angry if I speak just once more. Suppose ten are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of ten I will not destroy it.”  And the LORD went his way, when he had finished speaking to Abraham; and Abraham returned to his place (Ge 18:23–33). 

 God forbid! God knows best and knows all...

Strawman

...and none of His creatures can claim such.

Strawman

If anyone goes to hell, it is because God is just, wise, and good.

Strawman 

Eagles Wings View Post
Would you like to hear what a Christian parent says to their children?  Follow me, as I follow Christ.

...And God bless daddy and mommy and uncle Joe and auntie Margie...

No son, not auntie Margie. She's a headcase. Doesn't seem like she's one of God's elect. Move along in prayer now.

Sonnet View Post
Isaiah 46:10

Sure God knows all that is, has and will occur. God must be Sovereign mustn't He?

How did He guarantee Jesus ended up on the cross?

That was his plan from the foundation of the world. He made it happen. John MacArthur said Jesus couldn't have gone to the cross unless God saw it in advance.  

Eagles Wings View Post
How would you pray for someone who did not know Christ?

That he come to know him.

Heartlight ~ Neil Diamond  

Eagles Wings View Post
Here is sample prayer:

"Dear God, that my child/friend/sister/neighbor, might come to saving faith in Jesus Christ. Make provision for a clear opportunity for me to bring him/her to a saving knowledge of Christ. Give me opportunity and boldness to invite_________to come home to You." (Luke14:23)

"God, grant_________a good will to respond to Thy call."

"O Lord, give______a new heart to believe in You."

Much better than that gay Neil Diamond song.  

Eagles Wings View Post
[Jn 1:1-3] What is your doctrine of the Triune God regarding the Incarnation?

Jn 1:14  

hoghead1 View Post
I don't hold with total depravity. I don't think it is a biblical doctrine at all, to start with. Furthermore, if it is really true that we are all born corrupt and evil through and through, then let's just go out and be as evil as we can...

That makes more sense than coming to Christ and then walking away.

For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire about to consume the adversaries (Heb 10:26–27).

God's Truth View Post
Repenting of our sins is obeying.

Except for the fact that you don't obey (2 Pe 2:1).

Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.  

God's Truth View Post
Repenting of our sins does not mean we no longer have to obey.

Except for the fact that you can't obey because you are not indwelled with the Holy Spirit (2 Pe 2:1).

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.
Sonnet View Post
Don't you mean - Jesus is not God the Father?

That's right. This antichrist teaches that God puts on his Father hat, then his Son hat and then his Holy Spirit hat (2 Pe 2:1).
The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Holy Spirit. When Jesus prayed in Gethsemane, he must have been talking to himself.

“Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.” Lk 22:42  

Sonnet View Post
You don't truly engage in debate Nang - you feel it's beneath your dignity to mix with those you consider unregenerate.

Elite alert (Ingraham)

Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 1 Co 10:12, Phil 2:12

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and looked down on everyone else: “Two men went up to the temple complex to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee took his stand and was praying like this: ‘God, I thank You that I’m not like other people —greedy, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give a tenth t of everything I get.’

“But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even raise his eyes to heaven but kept striking his chest and saying, ‘God, turn Your wrath from me--a sinner!’

I tell you, this one went down to his house justified rather than the other; because everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” Lk 18:9–14
Nameless.In.Grace View Post
SD, Who is being elite?

Calvinists

Nang View Post
Sonnet, the admitted atheist, has been allowed to post on ECT under the above provision, and he has violated the spirit of the rule, by evidencing he is not open to the answers given to his questions. For weeks, Christians have patiently interacted with him, only to be rebuffed and accused of not accommodating him. This is not serious inquiry; it is harassment and interference introduced to disrupt genuine Christian discussion.

Hopefully, the mods will get around to catching on to what you and NIG are actually doing, and restrict both of you to posting only on the Religion Forum.

Your answers are insufficient (2 Pe 2:1). Root out Greek paganism from your theology and you'll be good.

”Sponge Bob --Keep Going! You're Good!"

Nameless.In.Grace View Post
Nang!...Your very words prove Sonnets point!

Nang: 0
Sonnet: 23



Nameless.In.Grace View Post
SD, But this post has even grown to represent more than just Calvinist.  Correct me if you disagree Sonnet.  It appears to have extended to all that trust the pulpit and human exposition of scripture by commentary or other past Jesus as the Theology and the Spirit as the Commentary.

Pride and ego get in the way. Jn 3:16 isn't going anywhere.

...[F]ar be it that he is open to instruction in the Truth of God at all.

Except that you're not teaching the truth (2 Pe 2:1). Greek paganism has no place in theology. God does not see a future that doesn't exist.

You have sided with an avowed enemy of Jesus Christ...

With your Jesus? Who wouldn't be his enemy? Sonnet has more hope than you (Re 3:16).

...and have chosen to keep score against me? You have insulted and disappointed me beyond words.

Not as disappointed as I am each time I meet a Calvinist. I bet your prayers don't go beyond the ceiling--ask God. If you don't believe you can change his heart and mind, then make better use of your time (and no--he's not outside of time either ). Calvinist pious platitudes: When I pray I am changed, God isn't. Know what? You're right.

I wouldn't spend 12 seconds with your Jesus. A walk on the lakeshore in the cool of the day? I've got loved ones down there burning in hell, God. Really not in the mood. Eat a meal at the marriage supper? My loved ones are in torment right now. Not too hungry, Lord.

Thank goodness your Jesus doesn't exist.
Nameless.In.Grace View Post
It is people like you, Nang and Eagles Wings that make me ashamed to call myself a Christian...

Nang View Post
Fine, then don't. For you are not.


Grandmother's Song
daqq View Post
...[T]he same old problem with "Esau have I hated"...


See:

Why God Hated Esau by J. Vernon McGee

Nameless.In.Grace View Post
SD, really?  CR is in the gospel trenches.  He chooses Jesus as his sole hope and places faith in Him, thus being in Him...

Depends on what the meaning of Jesus is.

"Jesus is never called a holy child..." ~ Cross Reference

"Man's own religion usually descends to the fleshly life to which they themselves practice." ~ Jim Andrews
Nang View Post
Predestination refers to the fate of mankind...


Fate is a Greek pagan concept. It is not biblical.


Too many chefs in the kitchen (Jas 3:1).
Nang View Post
...[W]hen discussing theology, fate speaks of the destinies of all creatures; held according to the election of sovereign God Almighty...
Sonnet View Post
Crucible - you can't find these imaginary posts.

We have authority to walk over these snakes and scorpions--children of the devil (Lk 10:19). They can move this thread to the infidel section if they'd like. It doesn't change the fact that Calvinism is not a historical biblical position (2 Pe 2:1).
Sonnet View Post
[Mt 16:23] You believe that consistent Calvinists are 'children of the devil'?

One doesn't go to heaven or hell for his belief in Calvinism or Arminianism (also wrong).  One goes to heaven or hell based on a right relationship with Jesus Christ.
Run your doctrine through the word of God not the word of God through your doctrine (2 Pe 2:1).
Nang View Post
...Your misrepresentations and accusations are simply

Take off your rose-colored Calvinist glasses so that you can see clearly. 1 Co 13:12
Nameless.In.Grace View Post
A man arrives at the gates of heaven. St. Peter asks, "Religion?" The man says, "Methodist." St. Peter looks down his list and says, "Go to Room 24, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8." Another man arrives at the gates of heaven. "Religion?" "Lutheran." "Go to Room 18, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8." A third man arrives at the gates. "Religion?" "Presbyterian." "Go to Room 11, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8." The man says, "I can understand there being different rooms for different denominations, but why must I be quiet when I pass Room 8?" St. Peter tells him, "Well, the Calvinist's are in Room 8, and they think they're the only ones here."

And the greasy grace Baptists are conspicuously absent (2 Pe 2:1). I'm saved, isn't that great? I'm saved, too aren't we great? This has been a fine bible study.
PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
[We have authority to walk over these snakes and scorpions--children of the devil (
Lk 10:19). They can move this thread to the infidel section if they'd like. It doesn't change the fact that Calvinism is not a historical biblical position (2 Pe 2:1).] Bah.  Says the Open Theist, which is an innovation from very recent years.
Take it up with Abraham (Ge 22:12).


[Take it up with Abraham, for now I know that you fear God (Ge 22:12)] Already did, biblical illiterate.

You're projecting again (Eph 4:14).

See:

Is the Future Settled or Open? Dr. Lamerson vs. Enyart

God...created time.

Greek paganism (2 Pe 2:1).

See:

Is God Outside of Time? Not according to the Bible.
by Bob Enyart

"Enyart is an utter rebrobate [sic] moron of the lowest order."

He's a fine servant of the Lord (Eph 4:14).

[Enyart rooting out Greek pagan thought 2 Pe 2:1] He's a reprobate heretic and schismatic, and innovator and renovator of the authentic Christian faith.  He's a moron.

You're projecting again (Eph 4:14).
 

Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation