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If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death (Le 20:12-13).

There is nothing wrong with diversity. There is something very wrong with perversity. Homosexuality is a crime. It leads to disease and death. It is a manifestation of man's depravity (1 Cor 6:9).

"If your deity gave human being free will, who are you to impede His will and impose judgment on His behalf?"

We are commanded to judge and judge rightly (Pr 31:9). Homosexuality is an abomination. You do have a choice to reject God, but because were made responsible to our creator, our choices have consequences. If you were the first man, Adam, would you too have sinned against God? In the second man, Christ we can be forgiven because he paid the penalty that we deserve. If you never humble yourself for this opportunity, then you will live apart from God forever.

Response to comment [from Satanist]: "No, homosexuals should not be executed. Such an idea is barbaric and alien to any kind of advanced, enlightened attitude towards human rights or dignity."

God commands death for the homosexual (Le 20:12-13). Why is it nice to keep the homosexual alive? Doesn't that encourage additional crimes which lead to disease and death? Satanists tend to stand for everything that God says is good and right so I imagine you are opposed to God's perfect law. Do you love death? Why should we who want to live and encourage others to live listen to you? Pr 8:36.

"This is one American that isn't going to stand by while innocent people get put in "reformation" camps and lined up before the chair. I can promise you that."

Jesus can reform the homosexual. He's done it before, God willing, he'll do it again. Homosexuals are criminals who use one another. That is not love. That is abusive, vile behavior to perpetrate on another.

"They also demand death for adultery and rebellious teenagers. Also, did you know skin conditions warrant exile?"

So, you do not know the Bible at all. Why are you labeled "Christian other"? Death is merciful for others who may be watching the wicked, perverted homosexual. If others know that the homosexual will be put to death, they will refrain from committing the crime. Perhaps the one is lost, but they do not need to lead others toward the path which leads to death.

"There was a time in history when Christians were fed to lions, what is your opinion on that?"

Response to comment [from a Christian]: [Lives in the UK] "Now that we have the New Testament a lot of the old testament practices are no longer done... turn the other cheek etc. instead of spitting some-one on your sword."

And look what that has gotten us. Europe is dead and the US is on life-support. When you depart from God's principals, you get a wicked society. Men can also break the law of gravity but they will fall. When broken, God's law leads to death.

"Apparently, more than you. Romans 6:14, for sin over you shall not have lordship, for ye are not under law, but under grace. (YLT) Paul talks a lot about trying to serve two masters and also how it is wrong."

The law is given for the unregenerate man to control his nature. We do not live by the law. We give the law to the lawless. Our new nature gives us all we need for self-control. The law was and is perfect (Ps 19:7).

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "It is unprotected sex that leads to disease or death, regardless of whether it is heterosexual or homosexual. You really need to learn that correlation does not necessarily imply causation."

Fornication (sex outside of marriage) leads to disease and death. When man uses the body beyond what God intended, it is an abomination. Sin has consequences--mentally, physically, spiritually. You really need to learn God's perfect law (Ps 19:7). Why don't you state your religious affiliation? "Pinko commie" is not a faith. Are you a member of a cult or 'ism?

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "I find it appalling that this is even up for debate"

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "I've given up on arguing it in this one, some people just can't be reasoned with."

"We don't live under mosaic laws anymore. The lives of consenting adults is absolutely none of your business. It must be a real downer that your draconian barbarism has long since been progressed from in society."

"More often than not it's the believers that start threads on the topic. The more fundamentally zealous perhaps but it's not 'God hating' to take issue with attitudes that would have been better served 3000 years ago."

Your new morality is just old sin. I prefer God's attitude toward homosexuality-- like the land redevelopment program in Sodom and Gomorrah.

Response to comment [from Satanist]: "It genuinely surprises me that any twenty-first American could seriously think this question needs to be asked."

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "'Morality' is in constant flux - it changes along with the values that people ascribe to actions."

God's standard is perfect. His moral principles do not change. Just because man is not punished immediately, it does not mean that he will escape punishment-- The mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small. If you obey God's laws you will live, if you don't, you will die. Nature tells us that (J. Vernon McGee). When you get in line with God's program, you act as he would have you act. Not as you please. God's plan leads to life. Humanism leads to death.

"So you'd rather just kill everyone that doesn't share your concept of sexual 'morality?'"

God defines what sex is moral (exclusively between one man/one woman in marriage). Societies work better when they enforce God's law.

"Why - does the existence of alternative sexual lifestyles cause you to question the validity of your own, giving you the need to violently suppress the alternatives to protect your own sexuality?"

"Alternatives" are perversions which lead to disease and death. We should promote a culture of life which is God honoring.

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "But it could not make man perfect. Hence the need for grace...You seem to have a rather unnatural attachment to the Law. Do you still make sacrifices? Or perhaps you have decided for your child who to marry? Do you not mix wool and linen?"

You identify yourself as an atheist. It would be most appropriate to preach law to you.

"What makes you think you have any more faith than me. I believe Jesus said something along the lines of "If you have the faith of a mustard seed, you can move a mountain." And before you go and say he wasn't being literal, check the context.) I'd like to see you move a thumb tack with your faith."

An atheist arguing that he has more faith than a Christian. I'll take you at your word. You have great faith in something. For the atheist it is self. For the Christian it is Christ. The object of our faith makes the difference between heaven and hell.

I haven't moved any mountains personally. I have no interest in moving a thumb tack. This passage is written for the believer who trusts Christ (Mt 17:20). An atheist cannot claim this promise.

I believe this thread began with a discussion about homosexuality and the depraved heart and mind (1 Cor 6:9).

“Finally we come to that which is the most hopeless thing” corruption of conscience. All its fine sensitiveness is gone. There is no high idealism in national outlook and national thought. Or to use the almost terrific word of the Bible, “the conscience is hardened,” so that there is no blanching with fear and no blushing with shame. There is cynicism instead of faith. Pessimism instead of hope. And utilitarianism instead of love.”
--G. Campbell Morgan

Response to comment [from an atheist]: [Re: Lk 17:6] "Then you admit that your faith isn't as potent as your 'holy' book claims that it is?"

The verse you refer to is about Christian forgiveness (Lk 17:6). Do you believe that Christians think they can literally move mountains?

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "You're going to have to do better than quoting a "holy" book to me - have you anything based in logic and reason to refute my position, or will you just parrot whatever your faith requires you to believe at me?"

I think that fulfilled prophecy is one of the best arguments for the validity of the Bible, but I believe you reject the whole series. I can give you my own testimony--I was blind and now I see. What about the first century Christians who died for their faith? Men don't die for a lie. They saw the risen Jesus and staked everything on it. Men still die for him. Belief in Jesus changes a person. Are they all lying? Pretending? Is it a conspiracy? Maybe you don't like religion. I don't either to be honest with you. But Jesus is alive. He has the power to save you. When he rose from the dead, he proved it. As one pastor used to say if you put your faith in a false Messiah, you'll end up like him. Those false prophets are still in their graves. Go to the tomb where they buried Jesus, he's not there. He's risen.

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "Riddle me this: Do you have the faith of a mustard seed? Jesus laid out a way to test this. You should be able to move a mountain. I highly doubt you can and neither can I. So, do either of us have enough faith to do anything with it? Apparently not. Hence my question, do you have more faith than me. I'm not speaking on terms of atheism. I'm working from the axiom that the Bible is true (I don't do it often. So, don't get used to it) You need to get passed my atheism."

There will be times in our lives when we will have to exercise our faith. We should prepare for those times in the down time before they come.

[Thread began with homosexuality] "That's when I brought up the death of the Law. Because if there is no Law, there is no transgression. The only way to damn a homosexual is to preach the Law."

The law did not die. It is perfect (Ps 19:7) and until heaven and earth pass, not one jot or one tittle of it shall pass until it is all fulfilled (Mt 5:18). We are not free to sin. We are free to obey. We live in an age of grace. We preach the law to the lawless. We preach grace to the humble and broken. There are two mindsets: Jewish and Greek. You happen to be a Greek-type thinker (1 Co 1:23). Jesus spoke with people where they were. He gives us a good model. He reached out to sinners. We are commanded to love our friends and our enemies.

"I'm not asking a reason behind moving a mountain. I'm merely asking if you can do it...It shows that you do not have the faith required."

Faith and forgiveness are not measured by the movement of a mountain. These things are known by God (Ps 139:23).

"This faith business seems to be flowing the wrong way. It is not our faith in God but God's faith in us."

God is faithful. He has proven that time and time again. Israel's existence is proof. We can be faithful to him in return.

"The Law was set to show that we...fall short in all things. We may not murder a man but Jesus said that even to hate was murder. We may not commit adultery but Jesus said even to lust was adultery. We should not swear falsely but Jesus said don't swear at all. The point being that if one lives by God's Law, they will always fall."

Heaven's standards are perfect (Mt 5:48). Men fall short of perfection. That is why they need a savior.

"If you are not free from sin, then you will never be accepted in the Kingdom of Heaven...which is it: Law or Grace?"

While we are in the flesh, we will sin (Phil 3:12). Every soul that sins will die (Eze 18:20). When we have died in Christ, we are set free forever from sin. To be absent from this body is better. It's a promotion (2 Co 5:8). But Christ has sanctified us (set us apart, gave a holy position). A saint does not live a saintly life. That is the world's idea of a saint. It's not biblical.

Sanctification is the work of the Holy Spirit. A man is convicted of sin. We were dead in trespasses (Eph 2:1). When you trust in the Lord (e.g. saving faith) you are set apart by God. After that moment: you achieve victory after victory, your relationship with God grows stronger and stronger, and sin looses its dominion. Sanctification is God's grand plan for every one of us.

When one is born again, he is positionally declared right in Christ. He progressively goes on being sanctified until death. We were enemies of God under wrath. Now we are children of God under his grace and goodness. 1 Co 6:9, These are the people before the Lord Jesus came into their lives and changed them-- "Such were some of you".

Christians have been washed, sanctified and justified. Heaven is a done deal for the believer. God's goal for us is to conform us into the likeness of his Son. He can do just that.

In Christ, we are all on the same page, headed toward the same goal (Ga 3:28). God will save a Jew or a Gentile. Men would be wise to get in the plan. God's best is reserved for the believer (Stanley).

Response to comment [from a Satanist]: "[T]he second religious fanatics are put in a position of power, they kill people..."

Jesus came to save not to condemn (Jn 12:47). When a woman was caught in the act of adultery, she was taken to Jesus. He did not throw her sin in her face. He offered her forgiveness (Jn 8:11). The murderer, adulterer, fornicator, homosexual, the effeminate, the thief, the covetous--every sinner--needs forgiveness. God still hates sin. Today, we do not put sinners to death. We live in a different economy. But God still hates the sin.

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "My point is that you don't have the faith required. Your faith can do nothing for you in the way of redeeming you because your faith is always blemished by doubt."

"Our faith in Him is nothing compared His faith in us. I mean would you give your only son to save the world?"

God would like us to have faith in him. I would not be able to give my son to save a wicked world. Thankfully he is God and I am not (Isa 55:8).

The whole world, not just a select few (Jn 3:16). Any man who comes to Jesus, he will in no way cast out (Jn 6:37).

Yes, the moment I believed I was sealed into the kingdom of God. Later, I identified with Jesus by full submersion baptism. This is the Christian's first act of obedience. It tells the world that you have died to yourself and now identify with Christ. Jesus died publically so we should identify with him publically.

If you keep the law, you must keep all of it (Ga 3:10). The law never saved men (Ac 13:39). "The law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ (Jn 1:17)."

"[H]ow do we know that we are born again? Jesus said it is like the wind blowing."

Saving faith is turning from something (sin) and turning toward someone, Jesus (1 Jn 5:13). Do we believe that Jesus is who he said he is? Do we believe what he said? If we abide in his words, we are truly his disciples (Jn 8:31). In his conversation with Nichodemus, Jesus explained that we need to be real with God. J. Vernon McGee said, "When we come to the Lord Jesus, we have to take off all our masks...You have to be the real 'you...' And this is the way He will deal with this man Nicodemus."

"God's conforming us?...Does this mean that we suddenly have the power?"

We suddenly have position (justification). We may not feel any different. When a person is set free from the burden of guilt, he is able to begin to walk by faith.

Redemption (1Co 6:20; 7:23) is in Christ (Mt 20:28; Ga 3:13). In a moment we are justified (Ro 3:24), forgiven (Eph 1:7; Col 1:14) and adopted (Ga 4:4,5) by God. What he begins, he finishes (Phil 1:6, Tit 2:14).

The Israelites asked for the law and God gave it to them. He set forth his standards. The law vs. faith problem in answered in Romans 6:1–2. '

Since God is the God of the universe, it was always his plan to call out a people for his namesake. He did that through the nation Israel. Israel was in idolatry when they lived in Egypt(Deut 5:6).

"But wait, if there are people going to Gehenna, Hades, or Tartarus, then would you say Jesus was successful?..."

Jesus has always been successful. When he came as a man, he was on a clear mission for Israel (Mt 15:24) then finally for the whole world (Jn 3:16). Before Jesus died on the cross men still got saved. They came then as they come now, by faith. Helen Keller was reached with the gospel of Jesus Christ. She said she knew God, she just didn't know his name.

God liked these men, Abraham (Jas 2:23), Moses (Ex 33:11), Enoch (Heb 11:5-6), Noah (Ge 6:8-9). Though they had short-comings, they had faith. If we give God a little faith, he will increase it (Ga 5:22). Some people seem especially gifted with faith.

Sin does not have dominion over me as it did before I came to a saving faith. Still, I can identify with the apostle Paul when he says, "For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do (Ro 7:15)." Our old nature will be there until the day we die. But our "inward man" is being renewed daily (Ro 7:22).

"[W]ould be why do you condemn the rest of the world to bow to the Law when there is no difference between a believer and a non-believer?"

The non-believer should have a functioning conscience which convicts him of sin. The law is helpful to bring him to repentance. When we see God's law, we see that we cannot measure up. But a man can get so far from God that God gives up on him (Ro 1:28). We cannot know exactly where that point is.

The prophet Jeremiah grieved for his nation, Israel which was destroyed by the Babylonians. They had gone too far. God said, "Even if Moses and Samuel were to stand before me, my heart would not go out to this people. Send them away from my presence!" (Jer 15:1). They had gotten so far from God, he would no longer listen. Whether a nation or an individual, God will eventually remove his hand of grace and allow destruction to come into our lives.

The law is perfect (Ps 19:7). Heaven's standards are perfect. God is holy so sin must be paid for. God forsook Christ so that he would not have to forsake us. God has a remedy for murder, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lying, cheating, stealing, being covetous, etc.--but he has no remedy for the rejection of Christ. "Is it nothing to you, all you who pass by?" (La 1:12). Christ's sacrifice wasn't "nothing". It was something and every person must make a decision--what will they do with God's son, Jesus?

There is a big difference spiritually between believer and non-believer. We are one human race but we are two spiritual races (e.g. believer and non-believer). One is headed for heaven and one is headed for hell if they do not humble themselves before God. Christians aren't interested in condemning the world. We speak about the sinfulness of sin. We speak about God's wrath because if God is love he is also wrath. God is good so he must judge rightly. It would be hateful for us to keep the saving grace of God to ourselves.

"If your redemption rested on you, you would not be able to fulfill it. You would always sin."

We will still sin while in the flesh. But sin's clinch on us eases. Christianity is faith-based not work-based. The first work we do is--to have faith (Ge 22:12).

My faith is imperfect but God is faithful. In other words, he is committed to righteousness and he keeps his promises. He has promised to save us if we keep our eye on him (Isa 45:22). He will finish his good work in us (Phil 1:6). We aren't good but he is. We must keep relying on him (Jn 15:5).

"[Jesus our high priest]...[H]e is perfect, God looks at you and sees perfection."

We are positionally declared right with God. Men go to heaven or hell depending on their relationship with God. We must know him (Phil 3:10). That was the apostle Paul's life mission.

Christ is faithful and we are to have faith in him. It is a covenant. Once made it cannot be broken. We may shake on the rock but the rock doesn't shake.

He is. He loves us and I think he'll move heaven and earth to get us saved (Zeph 3:17). That's why we're still here. That's his name--God saves.