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Should we rethink enhanced interrogation procedures?

[From ThinkProgress.org] "On Fox’s O’Reilly Factor yesterday, House Homeland Security Chairman Peter King (R-NY) jumped on the waterboarding bandwagon. When host Bill O’Reilly asked for him to “tell us something new,” King immediately that the courier information was obtained through waterboarding, adding that those “who say it should be stopped and never used again, we got vital information which directly led us to bin Laden”:

KING: Well I don’t know if everyone knows this or not, but you mentioned the fact that we obtained information several years ago, vital information about the courier for Obama [sic]. We obtained that information through waterboarding. So for those who say that waterboarding doesn’t work, who say it should be stopped and never used again, we got vital information which directly led us to bin Laden.

O’REILLY: Wow! Let me stop you there. I did not know that and I’m sure most of my audience didn’t know that. Explain how that went down. How did we get that information, where did it come from, was it from Guantanamo Bay?

KING: It came from an overseas prison where Khaled Sheik Mohammed was being interrogated. Waterboarding was used, and it was during the interrogation of Khaled Sheik Mohammed, through waterboarding, that this information was learned.

O’REILLY: KSM gave it up? Mohammed himself gave it up?

KING: KSM gave us the first lead..." Full text: Rep. Peter King: We Should Still Use Waterboarding Because That’s How We Captured Bin Laden

Response to comment [from "Evidently, SD could be convinced that torturing people is an option for a moral, godly people..."

You call waterboarding torture? :rolleyes:

"A Zionist wanting to use torture, who could imagine that?"

Now I get it--you're Satanic. :mario: You God-haters are so pious. :o

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "If you could gain life saving information from an avowed terrorist by subjecting him to temporary discomfort, how many lives would it have to be before you would agree to do it? One? Five? Three thousand? Your mother? Your child?"

This is not a difficult question. You should have asked, "...Barbie? Bunny Brain? Graniteheart? "

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "Then answer it! The thing is where does these kind of actions stop and what if you get it wrong..."

Let the grown ups handle it skullcap. You libs love to pretend that we live in a world without enemies. Your ideas do not work. Go lick lollipops and tippy toe over rainbows. :flamer:

Response to comment [from a Satanist]: "The question is a two-parter: does torture work? Sometimes. Does that make it morally acceptable? Absolutely not..."

The Satanist thinks he hold the moral high ground (Jn 10:10).

Response to comment [from other]: "The Christian who intentionally lies via her signature is lecturing others on morals. Explain exactly why anyone, Christian or non should take anything you have to say seriously? Proverbs 19:9 A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will perish."

If you're right, I'm in big trouble!

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "I think SD should be waterboarded."

Thank you, Matt Damon.

Response to comment [from a Satanist]: "

Humina humina:

""There was a mosaic of sources that lead to the identification of the people" that ultimately led to al-Qaida's leader, Holder told the House Judiciary Committee.

When asked if "any" enhanced interrogation techniques directly led to bin Laden's killing, Holder simply replied: "I do not know." Full text: Holder: Don't Know If Waterboarding Led to bin Laden
By Sara Sorcher

"Being a liberal means never having to say you're sorry." ~ Dennis Prager

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Holder may not know, but King was pretty sure."

Perhaps the Satanist will tell us which he found more offensive--the waterboarding that led to the bullet in the head. Or, the bullet in the head?

Response to comment [from a Satanist]: "According to the administration, torture played next to no part in getting bin Laden."

Waterboarding is not torture. It's ok to say that you were wrong Satanist.

Response to comment [from : "if you're so cool and tough you think waterboarding is child's play, you are indeed an idiot..."

We were supposed to give KSM play toys? :rolleyes:

Response to comment [from a Christian]: [Waterboarding is not torture.] "That is a ridiculous thing to say. Why is it not torture? It feels like drowning and being smothered at the same time. It is infliction of pain, extreme discomfort and the potential for extreme psychological trauma..."

Tell Daniel Pearl's family that.

Why do you argue on behalf of terrorists? Suffering a little Stockholm Syndrome, are you?

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "The Zionists did 9/11 and framed the Arabs and Bin Laden died 2001-2002. .."

Do you see black helicopters, too? :freak:

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "Torture, according to the United Nations..."

We're supposed to base our policy on what the U.N. says? Ge 11:6.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Unlike you I am not willing to drop all my values because I fear terrorists..."

My values include protecting innocent life.

"...I argue on behalf of human rights and a moral code higher than that of beasts and barbarians."

You argue for the "rights" of beasts and barbarians (Ro 13:4).

Response to comment [from other]: "...[W]ater boarding is torture regardless of the rights and wrongs of such."

"...Water-boarding is something of which every American should be proud.

Water-boarding makes tight-lipped terrorists talk. At least three major al Qaeda leaders reportedly have been water-boarded, most notably Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

KSM, as intelligence agencies call him, directed the September 11 attacks, which killed 2,978 people and injured at least 7,356. "I am the head of the al Qaeda military committee," he told Al Jazeera in April 2002. "And yes, we did it." KSM wired money-to his nephew, Ramzi Yousef, who masterminded the February 1993 World Trade Center blast that killed six and wounded 1,040. KSM and Yousef planned Operation Bojinka, a foiled 1995 scheme to explode 12 American jetliners above the Pacific. While some doubt his claim, KSM reportedly said, "I decapitated with my blessed right hand the head. of the American Jew Daniel Pearl in the City of Karachi, Pakistan."

After U.S. and Pakistani authorities captured KSM in March 2003, he stayed mum for months, often answering questions with Koranic chants. Interrogators eventually water-boarded him--for just 90 seconds.

KSM "didn't resist," one CIA veteran said in the August 13 New Yorker. "He sang right away." Another CIA official told ABC: "KSM lasted the longest under water-boarding, about a minute and a half, but once he broke, it never had to be used again..." Murdock, Deroy. "Water-Boarding Saves American Lives. (cover story)." Human Events 12 Nov. 2007: 1. MasterFILE Premier. EBSCO. Web. 4 May 2011.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: [Terrorists] "They have rights as human beings, rights that are laid down by international law."

We obey God's law (Ac 5:29).

"Stop quoting things completely out of context..."

Be afraid. Be very afraid (Ro 13:4).

"Then I suggest you start with "Love your enemies" and do that it in the fashion that Paul suggests in Ro 12:19-21."

What is unloving about waterboarding?

Response to comment [from a "Christian"]: "I agree. Waterboarding is full of love. In fact, I was going to waterboard my mom for mother's day this weekend."

Is your mom a terrorist?...It's all beginning to make sense to me now.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "..."[C]ivilized people have procedural protections against torture..."

Did you want to Mirandize KSM and OBL?

Response to comment [from other]: "Can anyone legitimately be this darn thick?"

The Seals lovingly found OBL based on loving interrogation techniques. They lovingly put him to death and lovingly prevented further murder.

You aren't happy, bunny?

"Oh wait, I know, the terrorists you're after, those dark skinned rag heads, those are the ones you want to cleanse from the face of the earth, right? Torture them. Torture all of them. You really hate them, don't you?"

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Leave it to SD to mock Christian love. Read 1 Cor 13..."

"Preaching the love of God without the wrath of God is dishonest." ~ Adrian Rogers

See:

Wrath of God

Response to comment [from other]: "A completely irrelevant bible verse..."

It's a completely irrelevant Bible verse when you're completely biblically illiterate.

Response to comment [from other]: [Waterboarding torture?] "Well what else would you call it?"

Call it what you'd like. It was/is necessary to catch terrorists.

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "I'm not in a position where I am responsible for protecting a country..."

The Seals finished the job that they were asked to do. Do you believe that the operation was a success?

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "I'm not the moral relativist you are. We live a righteous and holy life and if God gives us yet another day of breaths, we accept them and use them to live another righteous and holy day. War and standards of war conduct didn't start when the neocons ruled the Bush administration."

If we must go to war, we should go to win.

When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.

And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it [Deut. 20:10–12].

"Here is another great principle which is laid down. You may remember that General Douglas MacArthur did not believe in fighting a war which we did not intend to win. This kind of compromise is the curse of our nation today, and we do it with a phony piousness. This has pervaded our churches, and today it is in our government. We pretend to be the great big wonderful brother. MacArthur warned, in his day, not to fight a land war in Asia. But if we fight a war, we are to fight to win—that is the purpose of it. And that is exactly what God says. We have no business to fight a war unless we are fighting to win it.

God has put down some very good principles here, friends, but today we have departed far from them." McGee, J. Vernon: Thru the Bible Commentary. electronic ed. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1981, S. 1:ix-584

Response to comment [from other]: "Does the U.S. Government answer to biblical ethics, I thought there was separation of Church and State."

If you'd like it to work, it does. Samuel Adams said: "The religion and public liberty of a people are intimately connected; their interest are interwoven, they cannot subsist separately; and therefore they rise and fall together.”

The Constitution is a man made document and imperfect. God's word is the final word (Ps. 19:7, 119:142, 151, 160 ).

John Adams said: " Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people."

See:

Freedom Ribbon

America Founded to be Free Not Secular by Dennis Prager

Response to comment [from other]: "...If you think torture is justified in certain cases then be honest enough to admit it. Don't try and make out that such is less than torture when it plainly is..."

If you call it torture--fair enough. I call it necessary. It worked.

The very policies that they opposed (black sites, rendition, enhanced interrogation techniques, Gitmo, etc.) helped find OBL.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "If it's necessary to torture you to catch terrorists, is that also ok? Hypocrite."

If I were an enemy of this country, I should rightfully be afraid (Ro 13:4). I wouldn't want to wake up to a SEAL in my face like OBL. It went from bad to worse for him.

Response to comment [from other]: "...I'm opposed overall to torture and there's no evidence to suggest that this actually works in extracting information is there?"

"...The primary sources on coerced interrogation are Donald Rumsfeld, former national security adviser to President Bush, Stephen Hadley, CIA chief Leon Panetta, former CIA chief George Tenet, former CIA chief Michael Hayden and former CIA counterterrorism chief Jose Rodriguez. All of those men confirm that rough interrogation paid off with intel that led to bin Laden's demise..." Full text: Bill O'Reilly: President Obama and the Aftermath of the Bin Laden Raid

Response to comment [from other]: "So if the CIA decided you are an enemy, it would be OK to torture you."

The SEALs are on my side (Ro 13:4). I'm a happy camper.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "You better pray they don't change their mind..."

Were the Seals wrong to take out OBL?

Response to comment [from other]: "The US has already defined waterboarding as torture."

[Brutal, Yes; 'Torture,' Probably Not. Authors: Taylor Jr., Stuart.] "Abstract: The article cites the issue of waterboarding, if it is torture as claimed by U.S. Attoney General Eric Holder or simply a brutal interrogation method, but still legal as declared by lawyers of the Bush administration in agreement with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) proposal. The author agrees that waterboarding is torture but may not be illegal. Based on a recent report, Associate Deputy Attorney General David Margolis says it is not an illegal torture, in support of two government lawyers, Bybee and Yoo who defended the administration's position..." Full text: Brutal, Yes; 'Torture,' Probably Not by By Stuart Taylor Jr. http://vananne.com/serpentdove/Brutal%20Yes%20Torture%20Probably%20Not.htm

Response to comment [from other]: "Did you read your own link? I bolded the relevant part."

Yes. Perhaps you've noticed, there has been a debate on the subject. "I believe waterboarding was torture, and it was a mistake ( Obama)."

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "[I]magine a serpent with current capacity of posts per day after she has actually read what is posted on this forum!"

Unlike CheeseWiz I read the writings of those that I disagree with (Eze 12:2).

Response to comment [from other]: "It was your own link, and obviously provided as "counter" to Wiz!"

CheeseWiz said: "The US has already defined waterboarding as torture."

I made the point (one that Obama does not want you discussing this week) that administrations have differed on their opinions about waterboarding. Cheney was for it. Holder is against it. The debate is far from settled.

"...You've already amassed a track record for being unable to understand that which you even agree with..."

Ad hominem. I can't understand anything I read.

"When folk[s] asked you about your own understanding of science what did we get? Another thread! Another pasted essay!"

I was banned for that if you recall. You're still not happy?

P.S.

You're welcome.

Response to comment [from other]: "Go back and read your own link SD, especially the bolded parts Wiz provided."

Why "especially the bolded parts Wiz provided"? Is he unable to identify the two sides that the author presents? One administration believed that waterboarding was acceptable. The subsequent administration disagreed.

"[Y]ou can you show no indication of it [comprehension]...."

Ad hominem. I can't understand anything.

[You're welcome] "For what?"

For telling you the truth (Ac 20:20).

"The especially bolded parts undermined your own position..."

Is that all the paper says?

"It was obvious you hadn't even read your own link..."

If that's true, that's terrible!

"Unlike you he actually has an ably functioning cerebral cortex..."

Great. Cheese will now reveal the views of two administrations.

[Ad hominem: comprehension] "More a statement of fact based on the 'understanding' you show on any given topic..."

I don't understand.

We know.

"I think he's talking to you." ~ Homer Simpson

Should we rethink enhanced interrogation procedures?