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Response to comment [from an atheist]: "Why do I have to believe in you not to suffer forever and ever in torture. What will you gain from it? What if I harm no one...and still don't believe in you..."

Gino Geraci explains it as escalating offence. If you slap or insult me, who will care? If you slap and offend the governor, the authorities may be brought in. If you slap and offend the President of the United States, you may be arrested and jailed. When you slap and offend the creator of the universe the charge against you is the highest of high crime. There is no sin which cannot be forgiven except for the continued and ongoing rejection of God's hand of mercy and grace extended toward you or rejection of the Holy Spirit.

If you want to get to heaven on your own merit then your righteousness will have to exceed that of the scribes and the Pharisees (Mt 5:20).

An eternal offence requires an eternal payment. God will not enjoy sending you to hell (Eze 18:32) but he has made it clear that he will if that is what you choose.

"What if I kill again and again but come to you. [D]o I deserve an infinity of paradise?"

Jeffrey Dahmer did this and he repented. He hated all that he was. He admitted that he did not understand it all; but decided to put his trust in Jesus. If the Lord let men live that long, sinners would probably all end up like Jeffrey Dahmer. But by his mercy, we die at a good age before doing more damage. Sin in the heart grows to fruition (Jas 1:15). Dahmer did not deserve paradise but he will be in heaven. Neither you nor I deserve paradise, but if we have humbled ourselves before the Lord and repented of our sins, we will be with Jesus.

"What if I don't want to subjugate, grovel and praise but just enjoy my life[?]..."

You are already subjugated (Jn 8:34). You do not have to grovel. But God has something that you need (Isa 61:1). You don't have to praise him but that is your offence. Ingratitude is an ugly human trait.

God had perfect fellowship in the godhead (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). We get to be a part of his marvelous plan if we choose.

"I mean you created everything yet I have it in my will to simply think... no, you don't exist."

Unbelief is sin. How real is our love for him if it is not based on our choice. God intends to spend eternity with those who love him not robots programmed to do so.

"What if I believe you exist and think you're an idiot and not worth following?"

Then you don't know him (Jn 8:19). He is worth following (Re 5:12). You'll meet him one day (Mt 25:41) and look into the face of perfect holiness (Jos 24:19). If you can make a knee, you can make it bow. If you make a tongue, you can make it confess. But God does not want to be your enemy. Didn't he give you another breath to breathe? Didn't he allow your heart to pump once more? Didn't he give you another day to choose life (Deut 30:19)? He is willing to reason with you (Isa 1:18). If you want to know him with a sincere heart, he will make himself known to you (Ac 17:27).

"Why do you need me to believe in you and love you to get through those pearly gates."

Biblical belief is repenting (going this way, then doing an about face) and trusting in the Lord (not a program or a church)--in the person of Jesus Christ. People are flawed. Jesus isn't. He is the only one that can help us in our condition. He has changed the lives of people around the world.

"You created the heavens and the earth... so what? I wouldn't have even known about it if you didn't."

But you do know about him and you are here. Therefore, your decision matters. You can be what God intended you to be; or you can live a life that will have been no more important than that of the animals (Eccl 3:21). You have an upward call not a downward one (Phil 3:14).

There are wolves out there (Mt 7:15). We are like sheep. But sheep can be dumb, never getting into the pen where the shepherd can protect them.

God uses the fools of the world to share his message so that we are not gloried but he is (1 Cor 1:27).

"Look around at those doing your bidding. [T]they are mocked... not for their faith but their lack of sense."

It's like telling the blind man who just gained his sight, "Are you a fool? You can't see." A man who has not known Jesus cannot comprehend wanting to do good (Jer 13:23).

The apostle Paul did not use high, lofty words (1 Cor 1:17). He told the truth. It doesn't make sense to men but it is God's way (1 Cor 1:23). Only the Holy Spirit can take the things of God and make them real to a person.

Response to comment: "An afterlife with the defiantly wrong Christians like Haggard No..."

Stop looking at the sheep (most of whom aren't sheep at all). Look at the shepherd.

Response to comment: "[I]t basically still boils down to turn or burn. That's it. No more no less. Love me or suffer a fate worse than death. The only other people that talk like this are bullies. I don't like bullies."

God is not a bully. He has extended compassion since the fall of man. The very first thing he did after Adam's sin was cover him with an animal skin (a picture of the cross). Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin. Sin really is that offensive to a holy God. Each and every sin must be paid for. Christ is our covering. He shed his own blood to gain a redeemed people.

Every sin will be paid for by him or by you. It is your choice. A bully does not die for you to be saved. A bully wants you to die. You are in the hands of a bully, but that is not God; it is Satan. God is gracious because he has offered you life and you have to do no more than trust him--trust in his way not your own way. He is holy. He will not tolerate men's wickedness. We must change. Not him. If you are not interested in holiness, you are not interested in God. God does not force a person to go to heaven. He will fit you with a body prepared for heaven or with a body prepared for hell.

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "We can't look at the "shepherd" (an analogy I find disturbing - as shepherds keep the sheep alive only to be butchered at a later date) because there's no way to know whether or not it exists - the only reason we have a concept of the "shepherd" you follow at all is because you claim to be the "sheep." And the "sheep claim that the "shepherd" makes their lives "better" than those that don't follow the "shepherd:" but even the simplest of observations disproves this line of thought - as the "sheep" aren't any "better" off than the rest of us, they merely have a crutch to on that we don't have..."

You may not like the shepherd analogy but that is exactly what Jesus gave us: "I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own (Jn 10:14)." The shepherd calls his sheep to holiness. Being a good means that you give every person the opportunity to be saved--that is a good shepherd. If God created people to be kindling wood for hell that would not be a "good shepherd" or a "good enough shepherd"; rather, that would be an "evil shepard". Thankfully, that is not who Jesus is.

Response to comment: "If you take that analogy to it's logical conclusion, the final destination for the "sheep" is death so that their flesh can feed the 'shepherd'".

I would not diminish the reality of hell, but we know that the shepherd does not want anyone to go there (Mt 18:14). You make God out to be bloodthirsty and he isn't (Eze 18:32).

"[E]ven the best of shepherds must eventually kill their sheep - that's how they make their living...Actually, that would be a typical "shepherd" - "shepherds can't hold onto each individual member of the "flock" forever, some must be sacrificed in order for the herd to be maintained."

This shepard came to save those who were lost (Lk 15:4). Men only perish if they do not receive Christ (2 Thes 2:10). How can you call someone evil extending his hand of grace out to you?

"I notice how none of the believers that use the "shepherd" analogy never take the analogy to its logical end: they always stop at 'leading them to still waters and green pastures' - never going so far as to give the reason why a "shepherd" does that, as such a thought is too disturbing for them to contemplate."

God leads those who trust him to green pastures and still waters (Ps 23:2). God does not promise peace for the wicked (Isa 48:22). This is a little slice of heaven for the believer (Phil 4:7). No Christian is promised an easy, tribulation free life. God makes it clear there will be tribulation (Ac 9:16) but that he will see you through it (Mk 13:13).

Of course we Christians do not like to think about hell and what will occur to our lost loved ones there (2 Cor 5:11).

"Ambulances are for the sick and broken - unless you find yourself unable to ascribe meaning or purpose to your own existence (i.e. desperate), you have no need of any such thing..."

People are sick and broken before coming into a saving relationship with the Lord (Lk 4:18). That's why tragedy isn't so tragic if the Lord is using the opportunity to draw men nearer to himself.

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "Which contradicts Paul's claims in Romans 8 - which states that humans are predestined for redemption or damnation from the beginning."

The Bible does not contradict itself. The Bible does teach pre-destination (Ro 8:28). The Bible also teaches man's will. If you'd like to be destined to heaven, you can be (2 Pet 3:9). You come to God on his terms not your own.

I can pull out dozens of passages from the OT that contradict this claim - particularly ones from the Pentateuch that repetitively point out how burnt offering are "a pleasing scent to the lord."

You can pull passages from the Bible all day long if you'd like. But you will not understand the Bible until the author teaches you what he'd like you to know (Mt 13:13). You are reading someone else's mail. The Bible is 66 love letters to men who will hear. Understanding what the Lord says takes humility.

Burnt offerings never pleased the Lord. He made that clear. He wants the heart of his people not their sacrifice (Hos 6:6). When a parent is trying to teach a child something, he starts with picture cards. Later, he adds to the information.

Today, loveless churches who offer sacrifices to the Lord are offensive (Am 5:21).

"Anyone who dares to 'offer' me the terms of eternal obedience or destruction wouldn't be received as 'graceful' - more like threatening (and I have ways of dealing with people who threaten me)."

"Maybe you should think about that - about all the people that would be condemned by your "god" (if it exists) simply for not believing it exists."

I agree with the Lord's decision because he sacrificed so much for an ungrateful people. I would not be as gracious as he has been (Ro 5:8). If my son were hung up on a cross for wicked men who despised him, I could not contain my wrath against those who would not submit to the plan and purposes laid out for them to be saved. The very fact that the Lord withholds his wrath proves that he is merciful.

"...long-discredited concept of 'original sin' - take that idea out of the picture and the need for 'salvation' disappears."

That would be true but that is not reality. How has the sinful state of the world been disproven? By all the nice and loving people all around? This world has a big problem and its name is sin. Have you noticed that man cannot fix things?

"This is perhaps the oldest lie man has ever conceived of - that everyone has purpose. It's also very convenient for the social power structure as it functions very well as a basis for those in power to enforce their will over the commoners - making them believe that there's some 'higher purpose' for their servitude..."

Keep believing that men have no purpose. Be evil (Rev 22:11). Meanwhile, some of us have washed up and gone up to the father's house (Rev 19:13).

Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: "Romans 8:30 is often misunderstood to seem to say that God predestines people even before they are proven faithful. The verse isn't intended to mean that. It reads: "And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

It is important to see that the things listed here are chronologically in reverse order as similarly Paul does elsewhere in other writings..."

Ro 8:30: 1. God has a plan to call out a people for his namesake. 2. He calls all men. Some respond. 3. He justifies you (seals you into the kingdom though you have no righteousness of your own) 4. He then glories you into his likeness

Response to comment: "What is your belief then? Do you say that God predestined Adam to sin?"

No, God created Adam for fellowship. God create animals with the "breath of life" (Ge 2:7, 7:22) and man with a "living soul" like the animals (Ge 1:24, 2:7). God proposed (in the godhead: Father, Son, Holy Spirit) to "make" [Hebrew "asah"] man in our image (Ge 1:26). Man was "created" ("bara") in the image and likeness of God. Plants and animals have life. Some animals have a soul. Man has a soul and a spirit. Eternity is written on man's heart (Eccl 3:11).

Adam was to have dominion over the animals and all the earth. He was "created" (Ge 2) to possess an eternal spirit capable of personal fellowship with the Creator (Ge 1:26-27). But Adam failed. As Henry Morris writes:

Morris, Henry M.: The Genesis Record : A Scientific and Devotional Commentary on the Book of Beginnings. Grand Rapids, MI : Baker Books, 1976, S. 77

With the brief history, to answer your question; No, God did not create Adam to destroy him. God walked and talked with Adam. They loved each other. When Adam and Eve sinned, the world changed forever. Mankind will return to paradise but that is not only possible through trust in Jesus Christ. God wants all men to come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9).