New Page 0

What do symbols point to?

Ex 32:4-6; Ps 106:19,20. What do you think Jesus meant by taking up your cross daily? Lk 9:23

"Serp, you did a good thing by editing that post. The Holy Spirit is pleased with you for that!"

Let's be specific, Bob.

Do you believe that we are saved by grace alone (Eph 2:8-9), through faith alone (Eph 1:13; 2Ti 1:10), in Christ alone (Isa 45:21,22; 59:16; Ac 4:12).

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "You know what I mean. We are not to use images, whether physical or mental."

And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude: only ye heard a voice [Deut. 4:12].

"The Lord Jesus stated it very clearly: “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth” (John 4:24). People were never to have any likeness of God whatsoever. The Lord Jesus became a man, but the Bible does not give us any physical description of Him. Now you will probably think I am picayunish, if you haven’t already come to that conclusion, but I do not believe in pictures of Jesus. I know that many lovely people feel that a picture of Jesus helps them to worship Him. Let me tell you what was said by an old Scottish commentator: “Men never paint a picture of Jesus until they have lost the presence of Him in their hearts.” We need Him in our hearts today, not in color on a canvas. These are tremendous and eternal truths which God is giving us in this chapter. The instructions which were given to Israel in that day are great principles for us to carry over for ourselves today, because truth is eternal." McGee, J. Vernon: Thru the Bible Commentary. electronic ed. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1981, S. 1:ix-544

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "My point of the thread is obviously not to dispute how those "Booths' or "Stations" of the Temple worship were actually carried out in Jesus' time point by point, but the very fact that for hundreds of years the Hebrews had these liturgical actions of the Way of the Cross imbedded in their Yom Kippur liturgy!

I think that shows how awesome is our God to take us step by step and show specifically what the Messiah would do!"

Would you want to know exactly where Jesus was buried? If yes, why. If not, why not? Matt. 27:57

See:

No Idolatry & False Teaching

Works vs. Faith

What to "do"

Your Slogan/motto is: "To give up all and follow my Beloved where ever He leads me."

How does he "lead" you? By images and things to do

or in spirit and truth?

Would you give up your idols or should we call you Rachel?

And he carried away all his cattle, and all his goods which he had gotten, the cattle of his getting, which he had gotten in Padan-aram, for to go to Isaac his father in the land of Canaan.
And Laban went to shear his sheep: and Rachel had stolen the images that were her father’s [Gen. 31:17–19].

"Here is a revelation of something that is quite interesting. Jacob rises up and leaves posthaste again. You remember that this is the same way he left home when he was escaping from his brother. Now he is leaving his uncle—but it is not all his fault this time. It is obvious that he is prepared for this. He has all the cattle and the servants ready to march.

“Rachel had stolen the images that were her father’s.” I told you that they were in a home of idolatry. God didn’t want Jacob’s boys to be brought up there. But, you see, Rachel had been brought up in a home of idolatry, and she wanted to take her gods with her. What a primitive notion she had! Even Jacob had thought that he could run away from God when he left his home as a boy. But at Beth-el God appeared to him. He found that he couldn’t run away from God. In fact many years later David wrote: “Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell [sheol], behold, thou art there” (Ps. 139:7–8). That is, death won’t separate you. “If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me” (Ps. 139:9–10). You won’t get away from God by even going to the moon. You simply cannot get away from Him.

“And Laban went to shear his sheep.” Jacob waited until Laban went out to shear sheep. Probably Laban went quite a few miles away from home because the sheep grazed over a very large area in that day. They still do, for that matter, because it takes a large area to feed them. While Laban is away from home, Jacob just “forgets” to tell him that he is leaving." McGee, J. Vernon: Thru the Bible Commentary. electronic ed. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1981, S. 1:ix-127

[

Let's be specific, Bob. Do you believe that we are saved by grace alone (Eph 2:8-9), through faith alone (Eph 1:13; 2Ti 1:10), in Christ alone (Isa 45:21,22; 59:16; Ac 4:12).]"There are endless threads discussing these topics. Please go to them for your comments. If you would like to talk about how adorable God is in the ways He shows us how He has saved us specifically by the Feasts or similarly related material, then have at it. . ."

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "OK. It seems you are equating the Temple liturgy with making a picture of Jesus' face...Am I following you here at all? If not, set me straight."

I am responding to HisServant's statement "We are not to use images, whether physical or mental"

[Scripture, Tradition, and Rome, Part 1 by John MacArthur]"Roman Catholic doctrine is shot through with legends and dogmas and superstitions that have no biblical basis whatsoever. The stations of the cross, the veneration of saints and angels, the Marian doctrines such as the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption, and the notion that Mary is co-mediatrix with Christ--none of those doctrines can be substantiated by Scripture. They are the product of Roman Catholic tradition.

Officially, the Catholic Church is very straightforward about her blending of Scripture and tradition. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC)acknowledges that the Roman Catholic Church "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence" (CCC 82, emphasis added).

Tradition, according to Roman Catholicism, is therefore as much "the Word of God" as Scripture..." Full text: Scripture, Tradition, and Rome, Part 1

"Gotta go! I am going to the Cathedral to do the Stations of the Cross with the community of believers!"

Isa 55:11 Go get your spiritual goosebumps (Jer 4:22, Re 22:11). I hope you don't get hit by a Mack truck! If you do, cry out to God--beg him to forgive you for all your wicked religion (Jude 11).

Once I was driving down the road and I saw a squirrel hit by a car. Half of his small body was squished flat like a pancake but the other half reached out for a moment, arms flailing (2 Co 5:11, Jn 8:24, Pr 1:26).

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "...[T]hese kind[s] of pilgrimages would be something that Jesus and the disciples would be vehemently against. Because they are the epitome of self-absorption."

She's gone:

Sheila B quote: "Gotta go! I am going to the Cathedral to do the Stations of the Cross with the community of believers!"

They have said, "Jesus, I don't need you. You died on the cross and it means nothing (Heb 10:29). I will work my way to you. I will keep my prideful, wicked religion and come to you my way (Jude 11) not your way (Eph 2:8-9)."

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "By his stripes, not the confessional booth."

By faith

not works (Eph 2:8-9).

One mediator (1 Ti 2:5).

A woman was driving down the road and became fearful because a man began chasing her in his car. She tried to loose him and eventually she came to a stop in a parking lot. She tired to summon others for help. The woman confronted the man angrily only to learn that the reason he chased her down was to warn her of another man who had gotten in her car when she was at a convenience store.

Sometimes the one bothering you is the one you need to hear (2 Cor 4:4, 1 Pe 5:8).

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: [Idolatry: things between God and man ] "I firmly disagree."

"We intimately follow along in Christ's passion, recalling the great agapeic suffering that He endured for us..."

"...[T]he fourteen Stations of the Cross, a popular Roman Catholic ritual that is performed to gain plenary indulgences. Catholics gain these indulgences for the purpose of remitting temporal punishment for their sins in purgatory. Neither the doctrines of indulgences and purgatory, nor six of the 14 Stations of the Cross are found in the Bible..." Full text: The Passion of the Christ Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries

"...[E]ven Paul talks about being a [spiritual] father to his fellow Christians, not to put himself as a wedge between Christians and God but to help strengthen them in Christ."

You strengthen no one when you preach: a false Jesus, a gospel, and a false way of salvation. Your smoke and mirrors religion stinks to high heaven. Isa 1:13; 66:3, 2 Chr 34:25, Jer 1:16

See:

No Idolatry & False Teaching

Jesus is our Great High Priest (Heb 4:14).

Definition of a Priest

"This verse gives us the definition of a priest. He must be taken from among men, which means he must be a man. He must be a representative, you see. He represents man, but he represents man to God. He is ordained for man in things pertaining to God. Because he goes before God, he must be acceptable to God. That is the suggestion in “is ordained for men in things … to God.” In verse 4 we are told specifically that no man takes this honor unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. He must be ordained of God. Therefore a priest is: (1) taken from among men; (2) ordained for men (on behalf of men); and (3) goes to God for men.

We can now draw a distinction between a priest and a prophet. A priest goes from man to God; he represents man before God. A prophet comes from God to man with a message from God. Therefore the Old Testament priest did not tell men what God had to say—that was the ministry of the prophet. The priest’s ministry was to represent man before God. Now in the present age our Lord Jesus Christ is the only priest. It is He who represents us before God.

The priesthood functions, not for lost sinners, but for saved sinners. You will recall that John said, “My little children [my little born ones], these things write I unto you, that ye sin not …” (1 John 2:1). Well, I’m sorry, John, but you are talking to a boy who has sinned. Even as a child of God I have sinned. I am thankful that he covered me when he added, “And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” Christ represents me up there. When my enemy, Satan, accuses me before the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ represents me. He is my High Priest. That is one reason why I would never be satisfied just to have a priest on earth. I want to make this very clear, and I am not attempting to be critical. If someone is going to represent me before God, I want to be sure that he is acceptable to God. Is he one who has accreditation? Has he passed his bar examination so he can represent me in heaven? We can pray for one another, but we cannot represent one another in heaven. But because I need somebody to represent me, I am very happy that I have my Great High Priest who represents me before the Father.

“That he may offer both gifts and sacrifices.” Notice that the priest may offer both gifts and sacrifices. The writer is going to make it abundantly clear that He had something to offer: He offered Himself. Compared to the precious blood of Christ which has redeemed us, silver and gold would be like lead or dirt.

“That he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins”—notice that it is sins, not sin; it is plural. It speaks of the life of the believer. For example, when you lost your temper, did you go to God and confess that sin? You have a representative who is there to make intercession for you. He represents you before God."

McGee, J. Vernon: Thru the Bible Commentary. electronic ed. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1981, S. 5:538

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "Jesus says that where you spend eternity will be determined by your works."

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "Protestants are so strange, they place so many things between themselves and Jesus. Music, Scripture, fellowship, prayer, learning, theology, confessions of faith."

Did you just say that the word of God gets in the way?

Jn 1:1-3.

Music is vanity if unsanctified (Ec 2:8,11).

Your music sounds like your spirit--dead.

We trust the word of God (Jas 1:18) not man's opinion (Ac 5:29, Mt 15:9).

We pray through Christ not a priest (Eph 2:18; Heb 10:19).

We use our brains (Mk 12:30) so as not to be swindled (Ac 17:11).

We agree with one another in the faith (1 Pe 3:8, Jud 1:3).

I dare you to go into a Roman Catholic Church with a Bible

and notepad.

Do this. Get it on video. I'll pay you for your time. No editing like showing a picture

of Mary for a cutaway. Let's see the expression on people's faces when the see someone: open a Bible, study, and/or take notes. Even better--open your dusty bible to Galatians.

Zoom in really tight on those puckered up, pious faces.

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "I do not believe in pictures of Jesus"? That strikes me as a very oddball way to express an image of Christ!"

You attributed that quote to me. The quote is from J. Vernon McGee. "The Lord Jesus became a man, but the Bible does not give us any physical description of Him. Now you will probably think I am picayunish, if you haven’t already come to that conclusion, but I do not believe in pictures of Jesus."

This is his opinion. He supports his opinion with scripture.

He does not believe it is right to make images (Ex 20:2,3; Deut 5:7, Ex 32:4-6; Ps 106:19,20) of the Lord (Jn 4:24). What don't you get, idolater?

Deut 5:9

A few housekeeping items:

When I call you pious

I mean the exact opposite (Pr 8:12,13).

"Jesus granted the woman who broke an alabaster jar of oil to bathe His head, the great privilege of it's kindness "being told where ever the Good News would be told.""

That was Mary (Jn 12:3).

When he cleanses you (Jn 11:39),

you can sit with him, too (Heb 10:22).

"There are examples where a workman's wages are rewarded in this life and in the next."

"Mk 10:31 Believers will share equally in the blessings of heaven—a truth illustrated by the parable of Matt. 19:30–20:16" (MacArthur, Mk 10:31)

Unfortunately, you have not done a good work (Jn 15:4,5).

Your works are in the flesh (Eph 5:11). You are like the elder son who wanted to kill the father (Jn 1:1-3).

"Lk 15:11, 12 The parable of the prodigal son is the most familiar and beloved of all Christ’s parables. It is one of the longest and most detailed parables. And unlike most parables, it has more than one lesson. The prodigal is an example of sound repentance. The elder brother illustrates the wickedness of the Pharisees’ self-righteousness, prejudice, and indifference toward repenting sinners. And the father pictures God, eager to forgive, and longing for the return of the sinner. The main feature, however, as in the other two parables in this chapter, is the joy of God, the celebrations that fill heaven when a sinner repents." MacArthur, John Jr: The MacArthur Study Bible. electronic ed. Nashville : Word Pub., 1997, c1997, S. Lk 15:11

"...How does Yom Kippur being so beautifully fulfilled by our strong God who endured the Way to Calvary for our salvation - lead you to discuss these other themes?"

We are movers and shakers (Ge 1:2, Jn 3:8).

You can get up and get out of

Dawn of the Living Dead, too (Re 18:4).

"Dear God, make me a bird. So I could fly far. Far far away from here."

~ Jenny, Forrest Gump Jn 8:36

"Truth of the matter is, I forgot that I gained all these great things. It has no bearing on my actions, however. I do all these things for love of Jesus and to grow in thankfulness that He did them. To not forget what a heavy price He paid. I shed many tears when the deacon spoke of the difficulty breathing when Jesus hung on the Cross."

Sell is somewhere else sister.

Emotionalism is not a fruit of the spirit (Ga 5:22).

"I had forgotten that! It is for our weaknesses that we must remember the Sacrifice!"

"1900 years ago, they slayed Him today they put His blood under foot." ~ J. Vernon McGee

"We go about our daily duties and think we are loving Christ, but maybe it is shallow after all. I need to enter into a deeper emotional expression of thanks now and again for my own good."

"Guilt tries to get rid of itself not sin." ~ Jim Andrews

"Remembering the Way to Calvary, whether in pictures, in plays, in musical concerts, prayers, poems, whatever. . . these are merely pious expressions of our love for him."

"Ritualism is nothing more than a rut, and the only difference between a rut and a grave is the length and the depth."

~ Chuck Smith

We are saved by grace alone (Eph 2:8-9), through faith alone (Eph 1:13; 2Ti 1:10), in Christ alone (Isa 45:21,22; 59:16; Ac 4:12). Roman Catholics deny this (Jude 1:11).

You aren't a Christian.

"Roman Catholicism vs. historical, biblical Christianity: "We have different authorities, we believe different gospels, we worship different Christs, we are led by different spirits and we are on different paths to eternity. Compare this with the unity the apostle Paul described with those who are in one body and one ......Spirit, with one hope; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, on God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all (Eph 4:4-6)...

...According to many Reformers, Satan's crown jewel is the Roman Catholic religion. It is his most seductive and deceptive form of counterfeit Christianity in the world. Granted, there are many other apostate churches, but none compare in the size, power, influence and wealth to the apostate church headquartered in Rome. The problem most Catholics have is they have been indoctrinated from birth with the lie that they belong to the one true Church. By believing this lie, they have no incentive to read God's word and therefore they cannot discern truth from error. I pray you will ask God to reveal His truth to you as you abide in His Word (Proclaiming the Gospel, Vol 18 no. 4)..." Full text: No Idolatry & False Teaching

Your way is called the way of Cain and it leads to hell (Jude 11).

A Christian trusts in Jesus (Jn 14:6). Idolatry is not loving God. Idolatry is hateful to God (Deut 16:22; Jer 44:4).

"Especially when they are so biblically grounded as the Hebrew religion is!"

"You are saying that remembering the events is idolatry? That making a "play" or "performance" of the events, like an Easter pageant..."

Easter is a pagan holiday.

I'm happy that we Christians

have taken it over to celebrate Christ's resurrection (Lk 24:34).

[Justification is an act of God :Poly: not you.

] "Where is the line? Where does a person go over the line of trying to save himself vs reading Scripture for enjoyment (or worship or knowledge)? How do you decide between the two?"

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "Sheila, I'm glad to see you don't let others take joy from you..."

[Images/We, Protestants would do well to get back to basics, too.] "How far back?"

"1 Co 15:29 This difficult verse has numerous possible interpretations. Other Scripture passages, however, clarify certain things which it does not mean. It does not teach, for example, that a dead person can be saved by another person’s being baptized on his behalf, because baptism never has a part in a person’s salvation (Eph. 2:8; cf. Rom. 3:28; 4:3; 6:3, 4). A reasonable view seems to be that “they … who are baptized” refers to living believers who give outward testimony to their faith in baptism by water because they were first drawn to Christ by the exemplary lives, faithful influence, and witness of believers who had subsequently died. Paul’s point is that if there is no resurrection and no life after death, then why are people coming to Christ to follow the hope of those who have died?" MacArthur, John Jr: The MacArthur Study Bible. electronic ed. Nashville : Word Pub., 1997, c1997, S. 1 Co 15:29

See:

What is baptism for the dead mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:29?

What is baptism for the dead?

"Being healed by handkerchiefs that touched the body of the likes of Peter and Paul?"

[Exorcism: True or False? Part 2 Acts 19:11-20 by John MacArthur]: "...In Mark 16:20, just to read you one of many verses which could be read, "And they went forth and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the Word with signs following." So God was in the business of confirming the Word through miracles. Now, this occurred in Hebrews 2, 3 and 4; it also occurred in 2 Corinthians 12:12 where he talks about the signs of an apostle. Notice Verse 11; let's see what happened. First was the proclamation, then the confirmation; and "God wrought special miracles." Who did the miracles? God did. By the hands of Paul; he needed a human instrument. Paul would preach, and miracles would occur.

You say, "Why did God do this?" Well, he did this to convince unbelievers and those with weak faith of the authenticity of Paul's message. Now, notice interesting that it says he did it by the hands of Paul. Now, the people, of course, would see Paul and not really see God doing the work, especially those on the surface. And so they got the idea that this Paul was some kind of super character. And Verse 12 says a very interesting thing. "So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them." And here's where you get this whole idea of healing cloths or handkerchiefs. But let me just back up and give you what this is saying. The people in Ephesus were very, very superstitious. And when they saw these miracles going on, coming out of Paul, they assumed the power was Paul's. And so the word "handkerchief" means "sweat cloth." Those people who work, artisans or anybody in the crafts or anybody who did manual labor in those days, carried about these cloths with which they would wipe their brow and sometimes tie around their head. Well, they got Paul's old, dirty, crummy sweat cloths! And they attached so much healing power to Paul, they figured if they get ahold of those sweat cloths, that that could work the same thing for them. And you know what? In spite of their superstition, God went ahead and did His miracles! Because God was in the business of confirming the Word, and He never let their superstitions violate what He was gonna do." Full text: Exorcism: True or False? Part 2 Acts 19:11-20

Also see:

What is a prayer cloth? What is the origin of the prayer cloth? Is there any power in a prayer cloth?

Is the Shroud of Turin authentic? Is the Shroud of Turin really the burial cloth that was placed on Jesus in His tomb?

"You will become a church of one crumb (absolutely no pun intended!) in the end, rather than many as One Loaf."

There is one, true religion ( Matt. 5:1–48; Matt. 6:1–34; Matt. 7:1–29; Matt. 22:36–40; Acts 10:34, 35; Rom. 8:1–18; Rom. 10:1–13; Rom. 12:1–21; 1 Cor. 13:1–13; Gal. 5:22–25; 1 Thess. 5:15–23; Jas. 1:27; Jas. 2:8–26; 2 Pet. 1:5–9; Jude 20, 21). Your apostate church perverts the word of God (Mark 7:1–16).

Too bad you didn't listen the first time. You will be held accountable for all you've heard (Ezek. 18:1–30; Ezek. 33:1–19; Matt. 10:11–15 Luke 9:5; 10:10–15. Matt. 11:20–24; Matt. 12:41, 42 Luke 11:31, 32. Matt. 23:31–35 Luke 11:49–51. Matt. 25:14–30 Luke 19:12–27. Mark 6:11; Luke 13:6–9; Luke 21:1–4; John 3:18, 19; John 12:48; John 15:22, 24; Acts 17:30, 31; Rom. 12:3, 6–8; Eph. 4:7; 1 Tim. 6:20).

If you won't hear him.

He won't hear you.

Pr 5:8, Pr 15:29

"If you blow off God, He'll blow you off too (Hos 4:6)." ~ Doug Giles

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: [She's a train wreck] "She's a beautiful soul."

She's wicked.

She could be beautiful

if she would realize that she is: wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked (Re 3:17). Only then can she receive a blessing from God (Mt 5:3).

"And regarding Gal. 5:22 she evidences all those, which is more than I can say for her detractors."

"There's a difference between the struggles of a sinner and wickedness (evil) of heart."

Your works don't save (Ro 9:32).

The blood of Jesus saves (Rom. 5:9).

You are declared righteous before God when you trust in Jesus (Ro 3:22).

"You think with all your judgments and pronouncements and smilies that you're doing the Lord's work..."

You're projecting again.

Your faith is dead (James 2:14–26). Catholics are modern-day Pharisees (Lk 16:15, 18:9).

Mixing faith with works does not reflect the love of Christ (Acts 15:1–29; Gal. 2:16).

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: [Payday someday] "Oh, that it were today! But I must be patient and wait for the thief to come in the night when I do not expect Him!"

You have not died to your plans (Jude 11) and yielded to his (Ac 14:3; 20:32). Is this what you'll tell the chosen frozen in church tomorrow?

Tell the Lord who you really are.

He knows.

See:

Works vs Faith

Pious platitude.

The verdict is in: "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23)." Christ alone is holy: "You alone are holy; For all the nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed (Rv 15:4)." The only righteousness we have is in Jesus Christ (if we are in Christ). We have no righteousness of our own..." Full text: Armor of the Lord

We don't act like we're something we're not (Ro 3:23).

We are grateful for his sacrifice (Ro 5:8) and know that salvation is a gift (Eph 2:8-10, Ro 6:23). We come with empty hands for him to fill.

[Blessed Are the Poor . . . But Why? Matthew 5 by John MacArthur] "The poor in spirit are those who recognize their total spiritual destitution and their complete dependence on God. They perceive that there are no saving resources in themselves and that they can only beg for mercy and grace. They know they have no spiritual merit, and they know they can earn no spiritual reward. Their pride is gone, their self-assurance is gone, and they stand empty-handed before God." Full text: Blessed Are the Poor . . . But Why? Matthew 5

"How do you celebrate the Resurrection outwardly, as a "we who come with empty hands to be filled"?

We gather to worship together. It's not about religion.

It's about a relationship.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "So what are the stations of the cross you speak of? Are they like train stations?"

Response to comment [from a Christian]: [sky quote: "I don't care how "right" anyone thinks they are they have no business proclaiming that anyone is going to hell."] "Our apostle Paul said otherwise."

"...Jesus fulfilled the types and images in all the Hebrew religion's ceremonies. You wish to ignore this..."

"Sounds like a religious gathering to me. Why do you find fault with others who do likewise and call them "not Christians" and other things abhorrent to their sensibilities while you do the very same things?"

It's not about what we "do".

It's about what he has done.

There is one gospel and it exhibits the grace of God (Ac 14:3; 20:32).