Crystal Clear Proof of the Trinity
"The bottom line is that when we let
the Bible set our theology instead of force-feeding or enforcing our
pre-conceived ideas on the Bible, we can see that when the Bible is taken as a
whole, it effectively demonstrates the Tri-unity of the Godhead.
We call letting the Bible set our theology by understanding what the author had
in mind, exegesis and when we read into the Bible text something that simply
isn’t there, it’s called eisegesis.
We always want to let the Bible speak for itself and we do that by reading the
whole panoply of Scripture and apply the basic interpretive principle that
Scripture interprets Scripture.
When we let the Bible speak for itself, we see that the Trinity is not only a
Biblical concept; it is how God shows Himself to us.
From Old Testament to New, the God of the Bible consistently demonstrates that
He is Triune and when we understand the Trinity, we understand that God has
revealed Himself to us in a way that we may worship Him “in spirit and truth.”
(John 4:24)..." Full text:
A Case
For the Trinity
Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "Scripture does not interpret Scripture. If it did there would not be so many denominations. Please show me where Scripture "speaks for itself" and tells us exactly what books belong in the Bible."
How can you ever understand the meaning of any biblical passage if you do not know what it means? If you cannot take what the Bible ways to arrive at meaning, then language and understanding becomes meaningless (Ham). How do you decide what truth is concerning the scriptures? You can read your Bible with understanding. The Holy Spirit will never lie to you.
If you read a book that did not claim to be inspired by God, would you take it as holy gospel? Of course not. The books of the apocrypha do even not claim to be inspired. The authors never wanted you to place faith in them. The questions is where will you put your faith? In man's word and man's wisdom or in God's word and God's wisdom?
To answer your question consider Ge 1:1. Then, consider parallel passages (listed below).
In the abeginning bGod created the heavens and the earth.
Why Isn't the Apocrypha in the Bible?
Did Constantine Decide What Books Belonged in the Bible?
What Occurred at The Council of Nicea?
Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? Catholics say Yes! Truth says No!
Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "Talk to ten different people and they will give you ten different interpretations of the Bible..."
And all ten are most likely wrong (Mt 7:13). Who will you trust--man's opinion or God's word?
"...the premise that one can determine whether or not the Holy Spirit is guiding him is false...That particular gift was given to the legitimate successors to the Apostles in the Catholic Church, through the "laying on of hands."
Not according to the Bible. That gift is given to every born again believer indwelt with the Holy Spirit (Jn 16:13).
"So you claim to know more than the early Church."
I claim to know the word of God (Ga 1:8). Why won't your Church preach Galatians?
"A man wrote your Bible. A man translated your Bible."
That's true. Some translations are better than others.
See:
"If God wanted us to receive His wisdom solely through the Bible, He would have made sure each person would have had a copy of the originals from the very beginning, perfectly translated into that person's own native language...How about those who can't read? Did Jesus not consider all of these souls?"
It's extraordinary how God has preserved his word after centuries of attempts to hide it (including from the Roman Catholic Church). He has made a way of redemption available for each and every person (Ro 1:20).
How did Abraham get saved without the Roman Catholic Church? (Ga 3:6).
"He gave them a Church to guide them in the way of salvation."
The Roman Catholic Church teaches: a different Jesus, a different gospel, and a different way of salvation than historical, biblical Christianity.
"Hogwash. That verse says nothing regarding "born again believers." This is your own novelty. Jesus promised this gift to His Apostles, to be passed on by "the laying on of hands." 1 Tim 4:14."
The Holy Spirit leads the believer into all truth (Jn 16:13).
]1 Ti 4:14]
"Scripture is not for private interpretation."
Who said it was?
"You keep forgetting the fact that we no longer have the originals [scriptures]"
See:
How We Got the Bible http://vananne.com/inspiredscripture/How%20We%20Got%20the%20Bible.PDF
"Faith comes by hearing the Church."
Faith comes by the word of God:
"Even those who can't read, or never had a Bible (before the printing press), could always obtain salvation through the Church."
Those could obtain salvation through Christ (Isa 63:9; Eph 5:23) and Christ alone (Isa 45:21,22; 59:16; Ac 4:12). The Roman Catholic Church worked to keep the word of God out of the hands of the people. They murdered those trying share it with others (e.g. William Tyndale strangled and burned at the stake for heresy ,1536).
See:
"Do you see that faith was working together with his works."
Paul spoke about the root of faith (Eph 2:8). James spoke about the fruit of faith (Jm 2:17-18, Adrienne Rogers).
"Historical Christianity is the Roman Catholic Church. Historical Christianity never taught the false doctrine of "Sola Scriptura.""
[I would not argue that the Roman Catholic Church fought for the supremacy of the Word of God. Rather, they point to themselves. The Bible points to Christ. The Roman Catholic Church is an empty shell--just as God said it would be:]
"Rev. 3:14–22:
* This was
the least faithful church mentioned in the
New Testament.
* The people were neither hot nor
cold.
* They bragged about their wealth,
claiming they had need of nothing, but in
reality they were wretched, miserable, poor,
blind, and naked.
* God admonished them to totally
repent and allow him to re-enter fellowship
with them. Willmington, H. L. (1987).
Willmington's book of Bible lists. Wheaton,
Ill.: Tyndale House (Rev 3;14-22, brackets
my own)."
"Who ever privately interprets Scripture apart from the Church."
You may be a member of the Roman Catholic Church but that does not mean you are a member of the kingdom of heaven. Christ (not the Roman Catholic Church) will build his church. Christ (not Rome) will head his church. Christ (not the Roman Catholic Church) saves men. We are not to make an idol out of a church. Love the Lord (Isa 26:4) not stained glass buildings. Trust God not men. Men lie. The Holy Spirit will never lie (Ac 5:29).
"Even one letter can make a difference in a doctrine."
Nothing that affects doctrine. Will you trust man's opinion or God's word (Jn 8:31)?
See:
[2 Thes 2:15]
"The Church prohibited these corrupt Bibles in order to preserve the integrity of Holy Scripture."
If the Roman Catholic Church stands for the integrity of scripture, why do they remove the Second Commandment of God? Why do they include uninspired works in their "Bible"? To support their false teachings?
"[M]an is justified by works, and not by faith only."
If you chose the way of Cain you will die in your sins (Jude 1:11). You need to be born again (Jn 3:7). Trust in Christ alone saves (Isa 45:21,22; 59:16; Ac 4:12). Then, your works will begin to matter.
"It's not the Christ or the Church. It's Christ and His Church."
Christianity is not a religion about Jesus--it is Jesus. Any Church that attempts to steal God's glory is not of God (Eph 3:21). Christ (not Rome) is building his church on earth (Ac 2:27; 5:14; 11:24). Jesus (not the Roman Catholic Church) is able to save from false teaching (1 Jn 4:4).
"...rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me."
The Roman Catholic Church will not be missing many parishioners after the rapture.
"Notice it doesn't say he who reads the Bible and privately interprets it, hears me."
Jn 8:31.
There are two classes: the saved and the lost.
You trust trust men everyday. You trust the pilot to get you to your destination. You trust the engineer who built the bride you drive over. You trust the doctor who wrote the prescription for the pharmacist who dispensed the medicine you take--that is faith. If we receive the witness of men--the witness of God is greater (1 Jn 5:9). Have faith in Christ.
We have a basis of belief. We do not have a hope-so salvation. We have a know-so salvation (Rogers). The basis of our belief is Jesus. We can know that we are saved: "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God (1 Jn 5:13)."
1. Certainty that comes from the atoning work of Christ: "This is He who came by water and blood (1 Jn 5:6)."
2. Certainty that comes from the abiding witness of the Spirit: "It is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth (1 Jn 5:6)."
3. Certainty that comes from the affirming word of the Father: "He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God [the Father] has given of His Son (1 Jn 5:10)."
You have life or you do not have life: "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life (1 Jn 5:12)."
Christ's church is not headquartered in Rome.
The Church is:
Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "How can you claim to know what any bible passage means when men who are much more intelligent and holy than you reach different conclusions? I'm not speaking of myself, by the way!"
Do you think that God grades on a curve? God says no one is good--no not one (Ro 3:12). God demands perfection. No unclean thing will enter heaven (Heb 12:14). We can understand what we read in scripture because it is the Holy Spirit who guides the believer into all truth (Jn 16:13).
Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "[Grade on curve?] No, but I do...I trust men much more holy and intelligent than you to understand God's will."
Then you will fall into a ditch (Mt 15:14). If you put your faith in men, you will get men's wisdom (1 Cor 1:25).
Response to comment [from a "Christian"]: "Friend we seem to agree on more than we disagree....[D]iscard tradition..."
When we agree that Jesus created the world (Jn 1:3) and his is who we must bow our knee to (Phil 2:10), then we will be friends in Christ (Phil 2:10). He'll be your savior or he'll be your judge (McGee). Christ divides people into the saints and the ain'ts (Mt 10:34).
If you get it wrong about Jesus, it doesn't matter what you get right (Geraci). We stand in the truth (Eph 2:20). I hope God blesses. The problem is, you continue to reject the Jesus of the Bible and you are responsible: Gen. 4:7; Job 34:11; Prov. 11:31; Prov. 12:14; Prov. 24:11, 12 Psa. 62:12; 2 Tim. 4:14. Isa. 3:10, 11; Isa. 5:15, 16; Isa. 24:2; Isa. 59:18; Jer. 17:10, 11; Jer. 32:19; Ezek. 7:3, 4, 27; Ezek. 9:4–6; Ezek. 16:59; Ezek. 18:4 [vs. 5–9.] Ezek. 18:19–32; Ezek. 33:18–20; Ezek. 39:24; Hos. 4:9 Hos. 12:2. Amos 3:2; Zech. 1:6; Matt. 10:14, 15 Matt. 11:24; Mark 6:11; Luke 9:5; 10:12–15. Matt. 12:37; Matt. 23:14 Luke 20:47. Mark 14:21; Luke 11:49, 50 v. 51.; Luke 12:47, 48 [See parable of the vineyard, Isa. 5:1–6. Of the farmer, Isa. 28:24–28. Of the wicked tenant farmers, Matt. 21:33–36.
Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "Exactly. That is why you should stop trying to interpret the Bible, and listen to the Church..."
God gave you a mind and common sense. You really can think without Rome (1 Chr. 28:9).
"He who hears the Church, hears Christ..."
The Roman Catholic Church points to the Roman Catholic Church (an idol). The word of God points to Jesus (Ne 9:20; 1Co 2:12,13). It is the Holy Spirit who takes the word of God and makes it real to the believer (Jn 16:14).
"He who hears the Church hears God's wisdom."
Hear the word of God (Rom. 10:17).
Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "It's not Christ or the Church it's Christ through His Church. The Church is His bride, and they cannot be separated."
I do not dispute that Christ is calling out a people for his namesake, his bride the church. I do dispute that his church is the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church teaches a false Jesus, a false way of salvation, and a false gospel. Christ (not the Roman Catholic Church) is the foundation stone of his church (1Co 3:11; Eph 2:20; 1Pe 2:4,5).
"I trust God's Word, that is why I listen to the Church..."He who hears you, hears me" (Luke 10:16)."
"You" is not the Roman Catholic Church (Jer 14:14; 23:21; 29:31). You will know false teachers by their covetousness (Mic 3:11). "You" is anyone who preaches the word of God (Jn 8:31).
"I do not trust you, or any other man who says that Christ speaks through him."
Don't trust me. Test all things (1 Thes 5:21).
"Private interpretation of Scripture is anything but stable."
That is correct (2 Pe 1:20).
"It is the cause of division. St. Paul said to "hold fast" what they already had been taught."
Then believe the apostle (Eph 2:8). Truth divides (Mt 10:34). The Roman Catholic Church does not teach the gospel Paul taught. It is true that we are to hold fast to what we are taught in the scriptures. We are to remain in God's word. Then, we are truly God's disciples and we will know the truth (Jn 8:31).
See:
"Church leaders teach, and not the lay people."
"...[Y]ou need an authority outside of Scripture."
The word of God has authority (Phil. 2:16). Glorify the word of God not the Roman Catholic Church (Acts 13:48). It is the word of God that is the source of new life in Christ (1 Pet. 1:23).
"If you are not listening to the Church you cannot hear Christ."
If you are listening to a false Church you are deceived.
See:
Have You Ever Been Deceived? http://vananne.com/culttoasters/Have%20you%20Ever%20Been%20Deceived.PDF
[Glory-stealing] "It is due to the oneness of the Catholic Church that people even know that God truly sent Him."
It is by the Holy Spirit that the world comes to know the Lord (Jn 16:14).
[Jn 17:20-23]
Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "Exactly. That is why I don't trust man made dogma as you do. I trust those sent by Jesus."
"Some men's dogmatism is grown up puppyism (Rogers)."
[Mk 3:24]
The verse you refer to is a logic lesson by Jesus regarding demons.
[Lk 10:16]
Roman Catholics give a Roman Catholic message. They do not give a historical, biblical message.
[1 Ti 3:15]
"There are thousands upon thousands of protestant "believers" claiming to be guided by the Holy Spirit. There are also thousands of protestant denominations which disagree with one another. The Holy Spirit cannot contradict Himself."
The Holy Spirit does not lie (Jn 14:26; 16:13). He points to Jesus (Jn 16:14). Thousands of people can be wrong (Mt 7:13). Don't follow them (Ex 23:2). Follow Jesus.
Response to comment [from a "Christian"]: "[S]tudy more."
Good advice (Acts 17:10, 11; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17). From cover to cover, the Bible points to Jesus. He is Lord--the uncreated creator.
Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "The Catholic Church certainly is His Church..."
The body of Christ is an organic body of believers worldwide who have submitted to Christ's (not the Roman Catholic Church) lordship in their lives. They have repented of their sins. They trust in the Lord not a church or program. Believers do not trust in: their own righteousness (Ezek. 33:13), works (Jer. 48:7) men (Jer. 17:5) or leaders (Ps. 146:3). Their trust is in the Lord (Ps. 33:21, Ps. 119:42, Matt. 12:17–21). Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship.
"[W]ho founded the Catholic Church, and the year it was founded..."
See:
"There are many who claim to preach the Word of God, but they disagree with one another on many points."
That is why we trust God's word not man's opinion (Ps. 119:42). Where is your authority? Man's teaching or God's word? Men lie. God does not lie.
"The true Church of Christ teaches all that Jesus commands."
You will know them by their fruits (Mt 7:16).
"Only the Church that Christ Himself started teaches all the Christ commanded, and that is the Catholic Church. All other Churches were founded by men."
They claim that. One thing to watch out for in the cults and 'isms is--do they claim to be the only way to God? Test all things by the word of God (1 Jn 4:1). Decide if that is true (Jos 24:15).
"[S]ome family members will rebel..."
Decide who is in rebellion toward God. Look at their lives. Has Christ changed them? Do they walk the walk? (Mt 7:16). Are they living the Christian life in obedience? (1Pe 1:14). Do they have Christian joy? (Ga 5:22).
"Christ said He would be with His Catholic Church until the end of the age."
"Catholic" means universal. Christ will be with his true bride, the church. The church is made up of people who have humbled themselves before him (Jas 4:10). You turn from something (e.g. idols) and toward someone.
"The Church is the pillar and ground of the truth."
Christ is true (Jn 14:6).
"I glorify God, because of Who He is, for His mercy, His love, His Church, His Word and much more."
God is good. There is no doubt about that.
"Then don't listen to a false Church, listen to the Church Christ Himself founded (the Catholic Church)."
Then there should be evidence (Mt 7:16). Ask your fellow parishioners how Jesus has changed their lives (2 Ti 3:5).
Crystal Clear Proof of the Trinity