New Page 0

Response to comment [from a Wiccan]: "I quantify myself as being a Witch more than a Wiccan."

"Don't even go there. Hollywood is not an accurate portrayal of Witchcraft, and no, Nichole Kidman had nothing to do with it."

I'm just teasing.

I avoid her movies so I wouldn't know what portrayal Hollyweird (Savage) gives.

Catholicism, I agree. God gave one religion to the world--Judaism. Trust in Christ is the one and only way to heaven (Jn 14:6). Catholics teach: a different Jesus, a different gospel and a different way of salvation. I can see why Catholicism would not make sense to you. It does not make sense to historical, biblical Christians either. I ask Roman Catholics around here to consider the damage that their "pious" church has done (Rev. 3:14–22). Usually, they will not consider the issue (Matt. 15:9). Most people will not challenge their own beliefs.

Don't assume that Roman Catholics are Christians. No church membership will get you into heaven. Only trust in Christ alone saves a person (Eph 2:8, Ro 1:16).

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "That vananne.com website is really horribly designed."

Is it just me, or does Spitfire look like a prostitute? (Prov 5:3).

I would not suggest that is what you do for a living. I'm just talking about appearances.

You must not like the truth presented at vananne.com. Address the bad doctrine (Mt 23:27) and we can talk about style issues on another day.

Response to comment [from a Witch]: "I thought that the various branches of Christianity were formed from the Roman Catholic religion?"

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that they are the one true church. It is a very bad sign when a cult or "'ism" claims to be the one and only way to Christ. This of course, is not biblical. A true Christian will point to Christ--not himself or an organization. Christ is the head of his church not Rome (Eph 1:22; 5:23). Christ sanctifies and cleanses not a priest (1Co 6:11; Eph 5:26,27), believers are continually added to the body of Christ by God not Rome (Ac 2:27; 5:14; 11:24),

The church is an organic body of believers worldwide purchased by the blood of Christ (Ac 20:28; Eph 5:25; Heb 9:12) not indulgences.

God gets the glory not men. Men have always been saved the same way which is by faith (Ga 3:6). God asks us to "do" one thing and that is believe (Ac 16:31).

"I'm not going to get into a debate as to which form of Christianity is the true form..."

There is no reason to. The word of God is the final word (Ps 138:2). You will not find that Roman Catholics agree with that statement because they are false teachers bound by the traditions of men (Matt. 15:9). Trust in Christ alone saves.

That theology (universalism) may sound right (Prov 16:25) but it leads to death. Christianity is not a religion so much as it is trust in a person (Jn 14:6). All ways cannot be true because Jesus says that he is the one and only way (Jn 14:6). He is either right or he is wrong.

Sin brings happiness (or so men think) for a time (Heb 11:23-26); but it leads to death (Ro 6:23). Christians are called to warn others to forsake their sin (Eze 33:9; Da 4:27). Only God can deliver (Mt 6:13) and cleanse us (Ps 51:2) from sin. We are slaves to sin or we are slaves to Christ (Ro 6:18).

"Magic is a tool, and admittedly, any tool can be used for good or ill intentions."

Sorcery and witchcraft are forbidden (Lev. 19:26–28, 31; 20:6; Deut. 18:9–14 [laws against: Ex. 22:18; Lev. 19:31; 20:6, 27]).

McGee, J. V. (1997, c1981). Thru the Bible commentary. Based on the Thru the Bible radio program. (electronic ed.) (4:41). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Response to comment [from a witch]: "[A] person who has no belief in God leads a full, happy life, never causing harm to others, giving to charity, etc, etc will go to Hell simply because he or she doesn't believe?"

You may believe such a person does no harm (Ps 19:13), but they do when they fail to believe in God (Ro 14:23). It is sin and rebellion (De 9:7; Jos 1:18). He is good and worthy of all worship.

Work-based faiths seem right to man but lead to death (Prov 16:25, Jude 1:11). It is God's universe. He makes the rules. The wicked blame God (Ge 3:12; Jer 7:10). He is on the throne and will not bow to man's way.

"And yet a serial killer who repents on his deathbed will be given immediate access to heaven?"

Some say we may be surprised when we get to heaven at who is there and who is not there:

"...Mother Teresa said at the end of her life: “Where is my faith? Even deep down … there is nothing but emptiness and darkness … If there be God—please forgive me. When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven, there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives and hurt my very soul … How painful is this unknown pain—I have no Faith. Repulsed, empty, no faith, no love, no zeal, … What do I labor for? If there be no God, there can be no soul. If there be no soul then, Jesus, You also are not true." (Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light. New York: Doubleday. ISBN 0385520379).

"If there be God."? Mother Teresa came from a work-based faith that did not point her to the Savior. Her faith teaches: a different Jesus, a different gospel and a different way of salvation than historical , biblical Christianity. "When I try to raise my thoughts to heaven..." is an expression of work. Work nullifies faith (Gal 3:18). "I have no faith...What do I labor for?"

We cannot say what may have happened at the last moments of each of these people's lives, but what was their plan? We know that only faith in Christ (not prayer to saints, not trust in church works) will save. "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die (Jn 11:25-26, NKJV)." "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in me (Jn 14:1, ISV)."

No matter what we think we see on the outside, God knows the heart. "Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart (1 Sam 16;7, ISV)."

At the end of Dahmer's life he said "I have accepted Him [Jesus] as my Lord and Savior...The Lord Jesus Christ is truly God." (Dahmer Professes Trust in Jesus).

At the end of Mother Theresa's life she wrote, "Jesus, You...are not true." Scripture teaches: "If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved (Ro 10:9)." full text: I just don't believe that Jeffrey Dahmer could go to heaven and Mother Theresa could go to hell. http://vananne.com/armorofthelord/

"I find the philosophy "believe or burn' to be nothing short of unfair and horrific."

God is good and worthy of all worshipRo 14:23. . Failing to worship God is sinful and rebellious (Jas 4:17). Worship is to be rendered to God alone ( Ex. 20:3; Deut. 5:7; 6:13; Matt. 4:10; Luke 4:8; Acts 10:26; 14:15; Col. 2:18; Rev. 19:10; 22:8). When you fail to worship God, you do not worship nothing, you worship something else (e.g. dirt worship [Enyart]).

Do you hear your worship? "I...I...I". Understand what God thinks by reading his word. What is his philosophy? You will see he is good (Ps 34:8).

"...[T]o be perfectly honest, and it's not my idea of freedom."

God's ways can be higher than our own but not lower (Isa 55:8). Men enslaved in sin are not free (Jn 8:34). Christ is the giver of all freedom (Jn 8:32).

"...[T]his is merely my take on things."

Human secularism.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Stepping in..."

Step in anytime. The more the merrier. And let's convince Nightangel1282 of the truth before Freelight's goofball teaching can take effect.

Response to comment [from a Witch]: "You think a God who killed the firstborn children of Egypt, flooded the earth, killing everybody but one family and a bunch of animals, who ordered people to commit atrocities against other people who thought differently is good and worthy of worship? Sorry, I'll keep living in "sin" and rebelling..."

God is just. All that he does is right and good (not for the bad guys but for the good guys [Ro 8:28]--(ask yourself why you sympathize with the bad guys by the way). Just because you do not recognize God's justice, it does not mean that he is unjust:

And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the Lord’s passover.

For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord [Exod. 12:11–12].

"Friend, when you come to Christ, you should have your loins girded and be ready to get out of the world and no longer be involved in it. I do not believe that you can be converted and continue living a sinful life. This does not mean that you will not sin occasionally, but it does mean that you will not make a habit of living in a pattern of sin.

We had a remarkable instance of a woman in Los Angeles who ran a liquor store and was converted to Christ. She called me by phone and said she was getting out of the liquor business. She said, “If you tell me to take a hammer and break every bottle in the store, I will do it.” But it was all she had. I told her to sell the business. She sold it and is a wonderful Christian today.

You will get out of “Egypt” if the blood has been put on the doorposts. You are to eat the sacrificial lamb with your loins girt about, ready to go.

God had directed His plagues, one at a time, against the principal gods of Egypt. All of the gods demanded the offering of the firstborn. Now God is turning His guns against all the Egyptian idols."

McGee, J. V. (1997, c1981). Thru the Bible commentary. Based on the Thru the Bible radio program. (electronic ed.) (1:ix-238). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"'Thou shalt not kill?' God doesn't follow his own rules?"

God gives the rules, we follow his rules. He is the creator. We are his creation. Does a child tell his parent that he will now make the rules? Does a man jump off a building and say that he will not follow the law of gravity?

Man is not to murder. God is the giver of life so he is free to take life.

Image you create a gingerbread cookie. It comes alive saying, “Run, run, as fast as you can. You can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man." You made him (Is 29:16). You can and will catch him (Nu 32:23). :chew: God created life. It's his universe--he makes the rules and there are consequences for disobeying him.

"I'm sure running to a third world country and feeding the poor even though you have no belief in God is going to lead to death."

To get something from God you must receive something from God (Col 2:6). He fills empty hands.

"Sorry, but after seeing hundreds of thousands of men, women and children suffering and dying, and believing there was a merciful God who was doing absolutely nothing to help abate their suffering, I think I'd lose my faith too."

The world was made perfect. It was very good (Ge 1:31). After the fall of man, it was very bad (Ge 3:13). This is what man did not God. Adam tried to cover himself with fig leaves [Ge 3:7] as men try to cover their sin with works today. But man's covering is not good enough. God only accepts perfection. His covering is good enough. God immediately provided a covering for Adam after the fall (Ge 3:21). He provided a safe place for Noah and his family (Ge 7:16) and he still provides today (Jn 3:16).

"Hate to tell you this, but quoting scripture means nothing to me."

Should I quote Stevie Nicks? Only a witch can ruin Silent Night by the way.

"So you think Dahmer's in heaven? Mother Theresa is in hell?"

Only God knows the heart of each person. We go to heaven or hell based on our relationship with Jesus Christ.

"I'm sorry, I think my respect for your religion and your God just went down even more notches."

That is because your religion is of man not God (Prov 16:25, Jude 1:11).

"You don't want to know what I think [God] is after reading this post. Trust me, it would get me banned."

He's heard it all. God asks each person: "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD." (Isa 1:18)."

"Men living in fear of God's wrath are not free."

That's true (Isa 48:22).

"So anything that's not Christian is goofball teachings?"

That's right (Jn 14:6, Ro 14:23).

"How I love the open mindedness you are displaying {sarcasm}."

We should not be so open-minded that our brains fall out. There is one way, one truth and one way to life (Jn 14:6). Few find it (Mt 7:14).

"Nobody's going to convert me, or convince me of any so called 'truth'..."

True enough (Mt 9:36).

"I have already found my own."

Yep (Ro 1:25).

Response to comment [from a witch]: "I refuse to follow any God who would knowingly and willfully kill/murder innocent children to get his point across."

You don't think it's a good thing to destroy the wicked?

Filled with Violence

Just as world conditions in the days before the Flood presaged a coming catastrophe, so will world conditions in the last days of this age foreshadow an even greater catastrophe. Some of these characteristics are summarized as follows:

(1) Preoccupation with physical appetites (Luke 17:27)

(2) Rapid advances in technology (Genesis 4:22)

(3) Grossly materialistic attitudes and interests (Luke 17:28)

(4) Uniformitarian philosophies (Hebrews 11:7)

(5) Inordinate devotion to pleasure and comfort (Genesis 4:21)

(6) No concern for God in either belief or conduct (2 Peter 2:5; Jude 15)

(7) Disregard for the sacredness of the marriage relation (Matthew 24:38)

(8) Rejection of the inspired Word of God (1 Peter 3:19)

(9) Population explosion (Genesis 6:1, 11)

(10) Widespread violence (Genesis 6:11, 13)

(11) Corruption throughout society (Genesis 6:12)

(12) Preoccupation with illicit sex activity (Genesis 4:19; 6:2)

(13) Widespread words and thoughts of blasphemy (Jude 15)

(14) Organized Satanic activity (Genesis 6:1–4)

(15) Promulgation of systems and movements of abnormal depravity (Genesis 6:5, 12)

These conditions prevailed in the days of Noah and they are all rapidly growing again today. There is good reason, therefore, to believe that these present times are those which immediately precede the return of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Morris, H. M. (1976). The Genesis record : A scientific and devotional commentary on the book of beginnings. Includes indexes. (174). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books.

"[W]hat the heck did the poor animals in Egypt do to deserve getting killed."

Do you have that same compassion for the unborn? Animal rights has become another form of idolatry (Enyart).

Animals are created by God (Gen. 1:24, 25; 2:19; Jer. 27:5) and he cares for them ( 9:9, 10; Deut. 25:4; Job 38:41; Psa. 36:6; 104:11, 21; 147:9; Jonah 4:11; Matt. 6:26; 10:29; Luke 12:6, 24; 1 Cor. 9:9) but they too will suffer under divine judgment ( Jer. 7:20; 12:4; 21:6; Ezek. 14:13, 17, 19–21; Joel 1:18–20 [Suffered the plagues of Egypt, Ex. 8:17; 9:9, 10, 19; 11:5]). We live in a cursed world by our own choice (Gen. 3:14; 6:7, 17).

"[I]f Jesus Christ turned water into wine, then why the heck do some Christians insist that alcohol is evil?"

Alcohol isn't evil. Drunkenness is sin (Eph 5:18).

"Scripture has much to say regarding the drinking of alcohol (Leviticus 10:9; Numbers 6:3; Deuteronomy 29:6; Judges 13:4, 7, 14; Proverbs 20:1; 31:4; Isaiah 5:11, 22; 24:9; 28:7; 29:9; 56:12). However, Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…” full text: What does the Bible say about drinking alcohol / wine? Is it a sin for a Christian to drink alcohol / wine? http://www.gotquestions.org/sin-alcohol.html

"[W]hy did they have to kill the lambs to use their blood?"

Excerpt, Ronald L. Dart Born to Win Radio Program:

"The whole idea behind sin offerings in the Bible is for a man to acknowledge His sin and to recognize that there is a price to be paid for it. Now God didn't make a very big deal out of it. All it took was a little goat [or lamb]--that, that little fella had to die because you sinned-- would have an effect on a normal person, I should think. For the most part when we do something wrong nothing happens...at least that's what we think. and it calls to mind a passage in 'When a crime is not punished quickly, people feel it is safe to do wrong.' Ec. 8:11, NLT)."

"If God is all knowing, couldn't he have just known which homes the Hebrews lived in? Why would he need a visual indicator?"

Blood is a symbol. It is ineffectual to remove sin (Heb 10:4). Life is in the blood (Gen. 9:4; Lev. 17:11, 14; 19:16; Deut. 12:23; Matt. 27:4, 24). Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin (Heb. 9:22).

And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it [Exod. 12:7].

"The children of Israel were to put the blood of the lamb outside on the door. Upon seeing the blood, the death angel would pass over the house. I believe there is a picture given here that will answer a question that is asked many times: What will happen to the little children of believers at the time of the Rapture? If small children are in the house when the Lord comes for His own, will He take the Mom and Dad and leave the little ones behind? This chapter shows us that God will not leave the young ones behind.

Inside the home the family is eating the lamb, and by faith they are partaking of Christ. The young children do not know what is taking place. Will they be left behind in Egypt when Israel goes out from the land? If a little one has not yet reached the age of accountability, will he be slain? Oh no, friend, the blood covers everyone in the family. God will not leave small children behind at the time of the Rapture any more than He left them behind when the Israelites were redeemed and left the land of Egypt."

McGee, J. V. (1997, c1981). Thru the Bible commentary. Based on the Thru the Bible radio program. (electronic ed.) (1:ix-237). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"I don't understand how any merciful God could unleash a bunch of plagues to get his point across."

"The plagues may be viewed as God’s intervention to seek the release of the Hebrew people. They also represented God’s challenge to the Egyptian religious system. To the Egyptians, the Nile River was a god. From it came the power and life of the Egyptian culture. They worshiped the Nile and the abundance of resources that it provided. Since the first nine plagues seem to be a natural progression of God’s attack on the Nile River, all of these plagues relate to God’s challenge to the Egyp-tian religious system.
Following are the ten plagues, as recorded in Exodus 7:14–12:30:
1. The Water of the Nile Turned into Blood (Ex. 7:14–25). This first plague probably was the pollution of the Nile River by large quantities of fine, red earth, brought down from the Sudan and Ethiopia by abnormal flooding. The pollution of the water provided a favorable environment for the growth of micro-organisms and parasitic bacteria. Their presence could have led to the death of the fish in the river (Ex. 7:21).
In addition to depriving Egypt of water and fish—an important part of their diet—the plague also had a religious effect. The Nile River, god of the Egyptians, had been confronted by the power of the Redeemer God of the Hebrew people.
The Nile River near Luxor, Egypt. God turned the waters of this river into blood to punish the Egyptians for not freeing His people (Ex. 7:14–25).
2. Frogs Cover the Land (Ex. 8:1–15). Seven days after the first plague, frogs came out of the river and infested the land. The frogs would have been driven from the Nile and its canals and pools by the polluted water. When Moses prayed to God, the frogs died in the houses, courtyards, and fields. The frogs were symbols of the Egyptian goddess, Heqt, who was supposed to help women in childbirth. This plague was another demonstration of the superior power of God over the gods of Egypt.
3. Lice Throughout the Land (Ex. 8:16–19). Insects of various kinds are common in Egypt. It is not easy to identify the exact pests involved in the third plague. Various translations have lice (KJV, NKJV), gnats (NASB, NRSV, NIV), and maggots (REB).
4. Swarms of Flies (Ex. 8:20–32). Many kinds of flies are common in Egypt. The mounds of decaying frogs would have provided an ideal breeding ground for these pests. Some scholars suggest that the swarms mentioned here were a species known as the stable fly, a blood feeder that bites people as well as cattle. This fly is a carrier of skin anthrax, which is probably the disease brought on by the sixth plague.
5. Pestilence of Livestock (Ex. 9:1–7). Either the frogs or the insects may have been the carriers of this infection. The livestock of the Israelites were miraculously protected (Ex. 9:6–7). This was the second time God had made a distinction between the Israelites and the Egyptians in the plagues He sent (Ex. 8:22–23).
6. Boils on Man and Beast (Ex. 9:8–12). This infection was probably skin anthrax, carried by the flies of the fourth plague. The festering boils broke into blisters and running sores.
7. Heavy Hail, with Thunder and Lightning (Ex. 9:13–35). Egypt was essentially an agricultural country. By destroying the crops, this plague and the next struck at the heart of Egypt’s economy. Moses’ warning gave the Egyptians a chance to save their remaining livestock, and some acted upon it (Ex. 9:19–20). The severe storm caused great destruction (Ex. 9:24–25). The flax and barley were ruined, but not the wheat because it had not yet been planted (Ex. 9:31–32). This would suggest early February as the time of this plague. Again the Israelites received special protection. There was no hail in the land of Goshen, where the Hebrews lived (Ex. 9:26).
8. Swarms of Locusts (Ex. 10:1–20). The destruction from the previous plague was fresh in the minds of Pharaoh’s advisors (Ex. 10:7). The eighth plague must have followed the hail very closely. Heavy rainfall in July–September would have produced conditions favorable for locusts in March. These locusts, swarms of foliageeating grasshoppers, probably were driven into the Egyptian delta by strong winds. They wiped out the vegetation that had survived the earlier destruction. Again, as after the seventh plague, Pharaoh confessed “I have sinned” (Ex. 10:16). But again, after the plague was withdrawn, Pharaoh hardened his heart and would not let the people of Israel go (Ex. 10:20).
9. Three Days of Darkness (Ex. 10:21–29). This darkness could have been caused by a severe dust storm. For three days darkness covered the land (Ex. 10:23). This storm would have been intensified by fine earth deposited over the land by previous flooding. This plague probably occurred in March. Again, the Israelites were spared the effects (Ex. 10:23). By showing God’s power over the light of the sun—represented by one of Egypt’s chief deities, the sun-god Ra—this plague was a further judgment on the idolatry of the Egyptians.
10. Death of Egyptian Firstborn (Ex. 11:1–12:30). The tenth plague was the most devastating of all—the death of the firstborn males in Egyptian families. The Hebrews were spared because they followed God’s command to sprinkle the blood of a lamb on the doorposts of their houses. The death angel “passed over” the houses where the blood was sprinkled—hence, the name Passover for this religious observance among the Jewish people. Only a supernatural explanation can account for the selective slaughter of the tenth plague.
Some people might wonder if such a massive slaughter was really necessary. But Pharaoh had been given ample warning (Ex. 4:23). He had seen many demonstrations of God’s reality and power, and yet he had refused to acknowledge Him. Although Pharaoh wavered at times and promised to release the Israelites (Ex. 8:8, 28; 9:28), once the danger passed he changed his mind (Ex. 8:15, 32; 9:34–35). Because he rejected the power of God, Pharaoh was forced to face one final, terrible manifestation of God’s power. The deliverance of the Hebrews from slavery in Egypt was one of the most memorable occasions in Hebrew history. The Passover Feast was observed annually as a celebration of God’s deliverance of His people from bondage."
Youngblood, R. F., Bruce, F. F., Harrison, R. K., & Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1995). Nelson's new illustrated Bible dictionary. Rev. ed. of: Nelson's illustrated Bible dictionary.; Includes index. Nashville: T. Nelson.

"Couldn't God have just smacked the Pharaoh?"

He could have. He chose to reveal the wickedness of Pharaoh's heart.

"Does a parent threaten to throw their child into a lake of fire if they don't do as they're told?"

If you assault your neighbor, you may go to jail. If you hit the President, you may be sent away for a long time. If you offend a perfect and holy God, you will go to hell for eternity (Geraci). God is just. His judgment is right.

"What kind of a father would send his children's souls to hell for an eternity for only a lifetime of sins? That, my friend, is something called overkill."

You do not appreciate the exceeding sinfulness of sin or the holiness of God (MacArthur).

"My sister gave life to her children."

God is the giver of life. Molecules can obey natural law. It is God who creates each soul (Ps 139:13).

"Does that mean she is free to take their life if they tick her off?"

Your sister is not God. Man is forbidden to murder (Ex 20:13; De 5:17). God is the giver of life so he may take life.

[Gingerbread man]: "That's possibly the strangest analogy I've ever heard... but, if something that weird were to happen... I think I'd just let the little guy get away, since I don't like gingerbread in the first place."

Don't you bake cookies? God loves us. He's holy and cannot wink at sin. He cannot lower his standards and slip you into heaven by the cover of night. Every sin will be answered for. Sin will be on you or sin will be on Jesus.

If you had a picnic and ants invaded, would you step on them? Some men act like puny ants (McGee).

[To get something from God you must receive something from God (Col 2:6). He fills empty hands.] "Um... what? Did you type that out right because that makes absolutely zero sense to me."

Of course it makes no sense to men but that is God's way. Man's religion makes sense to man. Trust in Christ is not a religion. It is a relationship.

"God is supposed to be omnipotent. That means he would know what was going to happen before it happened."

This is a Greek pagan view of God. This is not the God of the Bible. Time is real. Happenings are real. Choices have real consequences. God has a plan. He is calling out a people for his namesake.

"[W]hy did he bother creating Adam and Eve if he knew they were going to eat from the magical tree in the first place?"

Man was created for fellowship with his creator. Adam walked and talked with God. For love to be real, choices have to be real. Although Adam sinned, God provided a way back to himself. Paradise lost will be paradise restored (Hanegraaff). Heaven will be filled with a redeemed people who love the Lord. We will not want to return to a sin-filled world again. Look around. Can you see the effects of sin on our world?

"How could he not have known that the serpent was in his own Garden?"

Lucifer fell. His fate was set. Angels cannot be redeemed. But men can.

"Noah and Noah's Ark... that is possibly even more unbelievable."

Look at the Grand Canyon. Does it look like something drastic happened there? It is the result of a catastrophic, worldwide flood. Do you really think that the little Colorado river carved out the Grand Canyon?

See:

In the Beginning: Evidence for Creation and the Flood

"How the heck would Noah get two of every animal on the planet?"

"And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female (Genesis 6:19).
In the book Noah’s Ark: A Feasibility Study4, creationist researcher John Woodmorappe suggests that, at most, 16,000 animals were all that were needed to preserve the created kinds that God brought into the Ark.

The Ark did not need to carry every kind of animal—nor did God command it. It carried only air-breathing, land-dwelling animals, creeping things, and winged animals such as birds. Aquatic life (fish, whales, etc.) and many amphibious creatures could have survived in sufficient numbers outside the Ark. This cuts down significantly the total number of animals that needed to be on board.

Another factor which greatly reduces the space requirements is the fact that the tremendous variety in species we see today did not exist in the days of Noah. Only the parent “kinds” of these species were required to be on board in order to repopulate the earth.5 For example, only two dogs were needed to give rise to all the dog species that exist today.

Creationist estimates for the maximum number of animals that would have been necessary to come on board the Ark have ranged from a few thousand to 35,000, but they may be as few as two thousand if the biblical kind is approximately the same as the modern family classification.

As stated before, Noah wouldn’t have taken the largest animals onto the Ark; it is more likely he took juveniles aboard the Ark to repopulate the earth after the Flood was over. These younger animals also require less space, less food, and have less waste.

Using a short cubit of 18 inches (46 cm) for the Ark to be conservative, Woodmorappe’s conclusion is that “less than half of the cumulative area of the Ark’s three decks need to have been occupied by the animals and their enclosures.”6 This meant there was plenty of room for fresh food, water, and even many other people..." full text: How Could Noah Fit All the Animals on the Ark? http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/really-a-flood-and-ark

"How did he get them back to where they originated from after they left the Ark?"

"Of the birds after their kind, of animals after their kind, and of every creeping thing of the earth after its kind, two of every kind will come to you, to keep them alive (Genesis 6:20).
This verse tells us that Noah didn’t have to search or travel to far away places to bring the animals on board. The world map was completely different before the Flood, and on the basis of Genesis 1, there may have been only one continent. The animals simply arrived at the Ark as if called by a “homing instinct” (a behavior implanted in the animals by their Creator) and marched up the ramp, all by themselves.

Though this was probably a supernatural event (one that cannot be explained by our understanding of nature), compare it to the impressive migratory behavior we see in some animals today. We are still far from understanding all the marvelous animal behaviors exhibited in God’s creation: the migration of Canada geese and other birds, the amazing flights of Monarch butterflies, the annual travels of whales and fish, hibernation instincts, earthquake sensitivity, and countless other fascinating capabilities of God’s animal kingdom.." full text: How Could Noah Round Up So Many Animals? http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/really-a-flood-and-ark

"How Did Animals Spread All Over the World from Where the Ark Landed?

An issue often used in an attempt to beat biblical creationists over the head is the worldwide distribution of animals. Such a distribution, say critics, proves that there could never have been a global Flood or an Ark. If the Ark landed somewhere in the Middle East, then all the animals would have disembarked at that point, including animals that we do not find in the Middle East today, or in the fossil record in that area. How did kangaroos get to Australia, or kiwis to New Zealand? How did polar bears get to North America and penguins to Antarctica?...

...The Hard Facts
A biblical model of animal migration obviously must start with the Bible. From Genesis we can glean the following pertinent facts:

1.“And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. Of the birds after their kind, of animals after their kind, and of every creeping thing of the earth after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive” (Genesis 6:19–20). The Bible is clear that representatives of all the kinds of air-breathing land animals and birds were present on the Ark. A technical term used by some creation scientists for these kinds is baramin—derived from the Hebrew words for created kind. Within these baramins is all the information necessary to produce all current species. For example, it is unlikely that the Ark contained two lions and two tigers. It is more likely that it contained two feline animals, from which lions, tigers, and other cat-like creatures have developed.
2.Another lesson from Genesis 6:20 is that the animals came to Noah. He did not have to go and catch them. Therefore, this preservation of the world’s fauna was divinely controlled. It was God’s intention that the fauna be preserved. The animals’ recolonization of the land masses was therefore determined by God, and not left to chance.
3.“Then the ark rested in the seventh month, the seventeenth day of the month, on the mountains of Ararat” (Genesis 8:4). The Bible is clear that the Ark landed in the region of Ararat, but much debate has ensued over whether this is the same region as the locality of the present-day mountain known as Ararat. This issue is of importance, as we shall see. The Bible uses the plural “mountains.” It is unlikely that the Ark rested on a point on the top of a mountain, in the manner often illustrated in children’s picture books. Rather, the landing would have been among the mountainous areas of eastern Turkey, where present-day Mount Ararat is located, and western Iran, where the range extends.
4.It was God’s will that the earth be recolonized. “Then God spoke to Noah, saying, ‘Go out of the ark, you and your wife, and your sons and your sons’ wives with you. Bring out with you every living thing of all flesh that is with you: birds and cattle and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, so that they may abound on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply on the earth.’ So Noah went out, and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives with him. Every animal, every creeping thing, every bird, and whatever creeps on the earth, according to their families, went out of the ark” (Genesis 8:15–19). The abundance and multiplication of the animals was also God’s will.
The biblical principles that we can establish then are that, after the Flood, God desired the ecological reconstruction of the world, including its vulnerable animal kinds, and the animals must have spread out from a mountainous region known as Ararat.

The construction of any biblical model of recolonization must include these principles. The model suggested on the following pages is constructed in good faith, to explain the observed facts through the “eyeglasses” of the Bible. The Bible is inspired, but our scientific models are not. If we subsequently find the model to be untenable, this would not shake our commitment to the absolute authority of Scripture.

The model uses the multiplication of dogs as an example of how animals could have quickly repopulated the earth. Two dogs came off Noah’s Ark and began breeding more dogs. Within a relatively short time period, there would be an incredible number of dogs of all sorts of different shapes and sizes.

These dogs then began to spread out from the Ararat region to all parts of the globe.

As these dogs spread around the world, variations within the dog kind led to many of the varieties we find today. But it is important to note that they are still dogs. This multiplication of variations within a kind is the same with the many other kinds of animals..."full text: How Did Animals Spread All Over the World from Where the Ark Landed? http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/how-did-animals-spread

[God has heard it all.] "He may have heard it all, but I'm sure Knight would not appreciate it lol."

I wouldn't mess with Knight or Cattyfan either (she still does not understand Hitler's nickname).

"I'm keeping my full opinion of your God to myself because I don't want to get banned already."

[Isa 48:22]. That verse doesn't seem to apply to me, because according to you, I would be classified as 'wicked' and yet my life is nice and peaceful."

Response to comment [from a pagan]: "The RCC and Christianity claim to be the one and only way."

The Roman Catholic Churches teaches that one must participate in their sacraments to be saved. This is not biblical. There is one gospel--one of grace not works (Eph 2:8).

"But any day of the week you can turn to the TV and see Christian Evangelicals leading their congregations the same way the RCC priests do? Some even trying to perform miracles."

Turn off the TV. Open and read your Bible. Get saved while you still can (2 Cor 6:2).

"Many denominations will say 'believe in our way, the only way to Christ and heaven, all others are false!'"

Sorcery and witchcraft are forbidden (Lev. 19:26–28, 31; 20:6; Deut. 18:9–14 [laws against: Ex. 22:18; Lev. 19:31; 20:6, 27]).

Most people are going to hell (Mt 7:14). Do what Jesus said (Mt 17:5). Love is hate to those who hate the truth (Enyart).

"...[A] lot of our TOL'ers will automatically put them into a nice little compartment dictated by the individuals profile choice of religion or the lack of..."

There are several at TOL who deny the trinity or believe in a work-based faith. We can disagree about carpet color in the church but not the nature of God or the gospel.

If people are speaking with false teachers, they need to know it [e.g. Christ-deniers (2 Pet. 2:1) or work-based, gospel perverters bound by tradition (Matt. 15:9).]

"[C]an you decide which ones are here to debate their personal beliefs and those that are in search of salvation?"

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Come on, sd, break something like that at least in half, willya? No one is going to digest that. You might as well copy/paste War and Peace."

What?

Nightangel1282 is slipping fast. We're only going to get a few more shots before Keypurr or Pierac jumps in. I can sense it. They're are lurking.

Response to comment [from other]: "Jesus taught us to be 'perfect' as our Heavenly Father is 'perfect',..thru unbiased love...How perfect is your love?"

Have you been sniffing Sharpies again? Know the real Jesus (Phil 3:10). Truth must be the basis of faith (Jn 8:32, Jn 12:44).

Response to comment [from a witch]: "If you consider innocent children to be wicked, there truly is no hope for you."

God does not apologize for judging men. You would judge God? Wouldn't that make you God? Read Job.

[End times: preoccupation with illicit sex activity (Genesis 4:19; 6:2)] "I'm just dying to know what your definition of illicit sex activity is."

Fornication (sex outside marriage). When God says "Thou shall not" he means--don't hurt yourself. When God says "Thou shall"--he means enjoy his best for your life. Men cannot improve on God's plan. Men ask for "freedom". When is a railroad train freer? When it moves down the track on steel tracks or when it goes off the track and plows through the meadow itself? (Adrienne Rogers).

Mary was with child not "clumps of cells" (Lk 2:5). Do you ask your pregnant friend, are your "clumps of cells" kicking today?

Queen of D'Nile.

Do you have the same respect for human babies? Do you "ooh" and "ahh" over babies or just puppies?

It's not your baby. It's the baby's body? Often it is a different gender than the mom. You'll do what you want with another human being? You must be god. This is called idolatry.

No one ever asks the baby's "choice". God does not permit the shedding of innocent blood (Jer 22:3).

When you say: "I'll do what I want with it"--I thought you accused God of doing wrong to take life. By your own logic, you are evil. In reality, God creates life. Men don't. God has the right to take life. Men do not have the right to murder.

God is able to make himself known to all men. There is internal evidence (Ro 2:15); external evidence (Ps 19:1); and the scriptures. Men are without excuse (Ro 1:20).

He did not worship the true and living God. God chose to reveal the wickedness which was already present in his heart.

"Stoning [was] a form of capital punishment. Most of the offenses punished by stoning were crimes against the sovereignty of God. They included blasphemy (Lev. 24:15-16; cf. 1 Kings 21:13; Acts 7:11, 58), incitement to worship other gods (Deut. 13:6-10), worship of other gods (Deut. 17:2-7), worship of Molech by child sacrifice (Lev. 20:2-5), divination by mediums (Lev. 20:27), violation of the Sabbath (Num. 15:32-36), and violation of the taboo of devoted objects (Josh. 7:25). Stoning is specified also in cases of adultery (Deut. 22:21; 24; cf. John 8:3-7), filial insubordination (Deut. 21:18-21), and homicide by a goring ox (Exod. 21:28-29).
A description of the procedure in judicial stoning may be gleaned from various references. The stoning usually took place outside the city (Lev. 24:14; Num. 15:35; Deut. 17:5; 22:24; 1 Kings 21:13; but cf. Deut.22:21). The criminal probably was stripped (Ezek. 16:39). The witnesses were the first to cast stones, followed by the entire community (Deut. 13:10; 17:7; cf. John 8:7). Accounts of nonjudicial stoning are recorded in 1 Kings 12:18; 2 Chron. 24:21.
The custom continued into nt times, as attested by the stoning of Stephen (Acts 14:19; cf. John 8:5,7). The fact that Jesus died by crucifixion rather than stoning shows it was a punishment inflicted not by Jews but by the Romans."
Achtemeier, P. J., Harper & Row, P., & Society of Biblical Literature. (1985). Harper's Bible dictionary. Includes index. (1st ed.) (994). San Francisco: Harper & Row.

[Ants at a picnic] "I might kill one or two that were crawling on me, but aside from that, I'd leave the little guys alone. They're just trying to survive."

Men yell at God like ants at a picnic. They are out of line. God lowered himself to become a man and die for our sins. It was a big thing for God to descend and lower himself like an ant in comparison.

Jesus died to save you. He did his part. You must do yours. He'll be your savior or he'll be your judge.

God has a plan. He is calling out a people for his namesake. He does not know a future that does not exist. "How many hairs are on the boogie man's head?" (Enyart).

"Adam and Eve didn't know the difference between right and wrong. Therefore, they were not created to be perfect beings."

Adam and Eve were created perfect. They knew right from wrong as you know right from wrong.

"If God created [angels] and God created humans, how come one can be redeemed but not the other? That doesn't sound very fair to me."

Angels were created for a different purpose (1Ki 19:5; Ps 68:17; 104:4; Lu 16:22; Ac 12:7-11; 27:23; Heb 1:7,14).

Man was made in God's image (Ge 1:26,27; 1Co 11:7) for God (Pr 16:4; Re 4:11) and his purposes (Ge 2:5,7).

"...[W]hat two dogs were there that were able to eventually birth St. Bernards vs. Pocket Poodles."

Likely a wolf-type creature that created genetic possibilities for a variety of dogs.

"With so few humans and animals left on earth, that would cause deformities in the children when they started getting together with relatives."

Genetic imperfections get worse over time (e.g. entropy). Earlier humans had better genes. Sin changed the world.

Response to comment [from a pagan]: "[NKJV]...[W]hat was wrong with the original [KJV]?"

[TOL Heretic's List] "I always wondered why an individual that professes to be Wicca, a witch and pagan never made that list?"

Those on the list are deceivers. They call themselves Christians but they are not (e.g. non-trinitarians or work-based faiths). You get more respect than them for being honest. Why are you complaining?

A few housekeeping items: I paste a biblical answer for the benefit of the reader, knowing full well that the original recipient in most cases could care less and has no intention of humbling himself before God (Mt 7:14).

"Deliverance from the power or penalty of sin; redemption. Is this not salvation?"

Christians are not sinless (Ro 7:17,23; Ga 5:17). They sin less. While we are in the flesh we will struggle with sin. Christ came to enable us to live the Christian life (Jn 10:10). We are freed from sin's dominion in our lives (Ro 6:18).

Response to comment [from a Wiccan]: "Tell me, how am I slipping fast? All your arguments are just making me happier that I'm a pagan."

Response to comment [from a Wiccan]: "Children... are... innocent! End of Story! For God to take their lives for the sins of their parents is absolutely unforgivable!"

That is not how God operates (Eze 18:20). You should get to know the real God--not the god of your imagination.

"I'm never planning on getting married, ever! So I'm always going to be having sex out of wedlock..."

"[W]hen the embryo is the size of a frickin' dime or smaller! It has no brain, it has no heart, it has no nervous system.... It.... Is... not... a...baby!"

A woman is pregnant or she is not pregnant. What is it? A hippo? Human mothers have human babies. Did you say you did not like me calling you Queen of D'Nile?

The baby's heart beats before his heart is formed. He begins to know and love his mother.

"By the way, they can't tell the gender of the child until much, much later into the pregnancy than abortions occur."

The passage of time does not make murder any less evil. Doctors don't know a lot of things. God knows if the baby is a boy or girl. He has a unique set of chromosomes, often a different blood type, and a unique DNA.

"If I'm raped and I wind up pregnant against my will, I would much rather have an abortion than have my body carrying a child I don't want..."

I thought you said that murder of children for the crimes of their parent was wicked? (Eze 18:20).

"[W]hen a child is aborted, it is nothing more than a clump of cells. By your logic, it would be sinful to remove a wart, because the cells in the wart are alive."

Mothers don't mourn the loss of a wart. But they do mourn the loss of their child.

"Adam and Eve were created perfect, Eve would have known that listening to the serpent and disobeying God was wrong! Therefore, they were not created perfect!"

Adam and Eve were created perfect with the ability to choose good or evil. They were responsible before a holy God as men and women today are responsible before a holy God. Sin entered the world through one man, Adam (1 Cor. 15:22, 45).

Response to comment [from a pagan]: [Gen 1:26] "Who are the ones referred to as "Us" and also "Our"?"

Morris, H. M. (1976). The Genesis record : A scientific and devotional commentary on the book of beginnings. Includes indexes. (72). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books.

"Since God says that we are created in his own image, can accept that we look like him? He is speaking as if there are others of his race but creating man in His specific image, correct?"

We are regenerated into Christ's likeness, from glory to glory (Psa. 17:15; Rom. 8:29; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10; 1 John 3:1–3). We were saved ([past] justification), we are saved ([present] sanctification) and are being saved ([future] glorification).

"He is speaking as if there are others of his race but creating man in His specific image, correct?"

In heaven, we may have a body like the risen Lord (John 20:26–29; 21:1, 2). We will be raised (John 5:28, 29), changed (Phil. 3:21), glorified (Rom. 8:29, 30), and finally perfected (1 Thess. 5:23).

Hell is a place prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt 25:41). Eternal bodies are seemingly fitted for heaven or hell (a body appropriate for their respective, eternal dwelling places). Both the body (Mt 5:29; 10:28) and the soul suffer there (Mt 10:28).

Response to comment [from a Wiccan]: "[Y]our God is not deserving of my worship...[Nightangel's gross fornication] "Wow, you're really mature. (sarcasm)."

"If a woman is absolutely dirt poor and knows she will never be able to care for a child, and that bringing the child into this world would be more cruel than kind..."

"Adam and Eve were obviously not created to be perfect being. They were flawed!"

Response to comment [from a Wiccan]: "I guess you're forgetting about the lovely piece of scripture... Judge not lest ye be judged?"

Hilary Clinton's favorite Bible verse (Enyart)? Read verse two (Mt 7:2). We are not to judge hypocritically. That means--if you are going to talk the talk, you'd better be willing to walk the walk--you'd better be willing to be judged by the same standard.

The Christian is to judge rightly (Prov 31:9). You only find the non-judgmental verses of scripture "lovely"?

God will judge. It is wise to throw yourself upon the mercy of the court before you ever get to trial. Judgment is a first principle of the gospel (Heb 6:2).

You are a child-killer (Prov 23:7). You are responsible before God for your worldview--every thought, every deed (Prov 8:36).

McGee, J. V. (1997, c1981). Thru the Bible commentary. Based on the Thru the Bible radio program. (electronic ed.) (4:60). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

[World living in Texas] "Do you have any idea how crowded that would be, for one, and for another..."

Let's go with your plan--kill them all (Jn 10:10). Liberals fail to think of consequences for their actions (Eccl 10:2).

Give "Mother Earth" the CO2--"...give her the air". Suffocate the people (http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-10/largest-co2-sequestration-plant-pump-33-million-tons-co2-ground).

[Adam and Eve perfect] "I suppose you're perfect? Nice of you to clarify that for us. It just shows how full of yourself you really are."

I clarified Adam and Eve were created perfect in the garden. After the fall, they were imperfect. Sin has a real physical effect on the world and people. Using your body as God did not intend also has a real, physical effect on the body (1 Cor. 6:18) and the soul (1 Cor. 6:9). Fornication comes from an evil heart (Matt. 15:19).

"Using your body in a way that God did not intend, is like hitching a plow to the back of a Cadillac. You'll destroy your car. Disobey God and you'll destroy not only your physical body , but your heart, mind and soul as well (Pv 5:11). God is not a cosmic killjoy just wanting to take away your fun (Hanegraaff). Every kick has its kick back (Rogers). The playboy's payday is death (Rogers). Payday-- someday. Our lives belong to God. They are not our own. Dishonoring ourselves is dishonoring God as we are made in His image..."full text: (Armor of the Lord http://vananne.com/armorofthelord/)

Where did I claim to be perfect? God is perfect (Mt 5:48). We are not (Job 9:20; Php 3:12).

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Not sure what my political stance has to do with the discussion."

God is on the right (Heb 1:3). Where we depart from him in our thinking and worldview, we are wrong--not him. What's wrong with shifting in your seat to the right a little?

"I'm not really into religion-bashing."

They say that when their false teaching is revealed. Notice, they attack the messenger. They did that to Jesus when he revealed truth, too. They "bashed" him something fierce, didn't they?

We live in a Christ-rejecting world. People must deal with Jesus and the claims of the Bible. We are commanded to repent. It's not a suggestion (Ac 2:38).

"[S]upposing she was angry with God, do you really think bombarding her with scripture is the best way to go?"

Responding in anger and rebellion toward God is not the right response (Nu 14:9; Jos 22:19). It provokes God (Nu 16:30; Ne 9:26) and Christ (Ex 23:20,21; 1Co 10:9). It vexes the Holy Spirit (Isa 63:10).

It is connected with stubbornness (De 31:27), corruption (Isa 1:23), and contempt for God (Ps 107:11).
Torrey, R. (1995, c1897). The new topical text book : A scriptural text book for the use of ministers, teachers, and all Christian workers.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Even I can't make it through what SerpentDove is quoting! Ya know a good scripture in the NT says that it is the love of God that draws us to Him. Where's your love, bro?...Remember the "adulterous woman" in the NT? Jesus did not lecture her. He knew she was an adulterer. She knew she was an adulterer. But guess what? He did not condemn her. He knew her heart."

What did he know about her heart? That it was wicked? (Jer 17:9). She was a sinner in need of a savior and Jesus ministered to her soul. "If you only knew the gift God has for you and who you are speaking to, you would ask me, and I would give you living water (Jn 4:10)."

If only she knew. People need to know. It is not ok to respond to God in sin and rebellion (Ec 7:9; Mt 5:22; Ro 12:19).

"...Unless you are a 5 point Calvinist, then that explains everything. No offense, but even if you are a 5 pointer, SerpentDove, you do not know who has and who has not been chosen..."

I am not a Calvinist.

See:

Does God Elect Everyone? http://www.vananne.com/armorofthelord/AOG%20Does%20God%20Elect%20Everyone.htm

Response to comment [from a Christian]: [Woman at well] "...he [Jesus] said nothing to her"

He opened his mouth and spoke (Prov 31:9). So did John the Baptist to Herod (Mark 6:17, 18).

"Jesus did not quote the OT to her..."

What's wrong with the OT? Do you think God changes? (Mal 3:6).

"It is my belief that this is the pattern for evangelism we are to follow. You befriend someone, you care about them and their problems, and you share with them, not preach at them."

That's great. Do that--give friends helpful advice.

The full soul loatheth an honeycomb; but to the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet [Prov. 27:7].

"This is the reason we have gourmet cooking in our day. We are a pampered people who have so much to eat that the food must be prepared in unusual ways or the foods must be exotic and unusual to whet our appetites. Some people need hummingbird wings or peacock tongues served to them before they can really enjoy their food. That is why cooking reached such a high degree of perfection in the European countries like France, Italy, Spain, and Germany. The ruling class had such plenty that they got tired of eating plain food. A tenderloin steak or filet mignon or strawberries and ice cream were just not good enough for them. So the chefs of that day had to concoct unusual and tasty foods for them.

Contrast this with the hungry man. Food, all food, any food tastes good to him.

One can also apply this to the Word of God. We are to eat it, chew it, ruminate on it. Actually, this is what it means to meditate on the Word of God. May God give us an appetite, a real hunger for His Word!"

McGee, J. V. (1997, c1981). Thru the Bible commentary. Based on the Thru the Bible radio program. (electronic ed.) (3:91). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"Yes, people need to know the gospel, but let's not make the same mistakes as people in the past - you don't ask people to change their behavior..."

Would have told John the Baptist that?--Rebuked him a little for confronting Herod, maybe? (Enyart). Jesus said of John the Baptist: "Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist (Mt 11:11)."

"...[J]ust share the love of Christ and let the Holy Spirit do the rest."

That's great. Do that. God says open your mouth and speak (Prov 31:9).

"Jesus did not sit around telling the disciples what a bunch of losers they were..."

"Get behind me, Satan!" (Mt16:23). Satan does not want the word of God getting out either.

"[Jesus] became their friend first, then their teacher."

Friends are good. They do what God says to do (John 15:14)--like opening their mouths (Prov 31:9). False friends are bad (Mt 26:49). Loving your enemy means telling him the truth (Prov 27:5).

From [other]: "ReptileFeathers is a special case...Keep in mind that at one time in our history the popular religion of the day ran rampant without restraint and tried their best to kill off our belief. All they succeeded in doing was forcing it underground. We are still here!"

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "I have placed myself 'more left than right' because I am flexible, compassionate and realize that life is not simply black and white."

The Bible is a black and white book. You must be nicer than God (Enyart).

"Did you ever stop to think why people reject Jesus? Perhaps it has something to do with the people who claim association with him."

Are we all to be fat cherubs with rosy cheeks and harps at our side? I thought you said you were "flexible". Tell me about this "flexible" deity.

Why do you think God made the prophet Jeremiah and the prophet Ezekiel so different?

"I'm not going to get into a debate with you about how God deals with peoples hurts and anger. I believe that God understands..."

God understands people. He has also made it clear that sin and rebellion are not the right response to him (Ec 7:9; Mt 5:22; Ro 12:19). Are you more understanding than God?

"He loves people enough to see past the walls they have built around their heart."

He loves people. He hates pride (Mal 1:3). Sometimes he breaks hearts to make them new (Is. 48:4).

Response to comment [from other]: [Nicer than God]?

"Christians today are nicer than God. Or at least they are trying to be so. In the Church there is a standard of niceness that Jesus failed to reach while on earth. Comparing God's attitude and behavior with that of the Church today shows that believers are far more polite, tolerant, understanding and respectful to the wicked than God is..." full text: Nicer Than God http://kgov.com/writings/nicer-god

Response to comment [from a Christian (TOL Facebook)]: "That's one of the most responded to "hello" threads I have ever seen."

"It's turning into "You are the weakest link...goodbye."

Response to comment [from other]: "...[P]osting Enyart links to me doesn't work...he would be the last Christian I would follow."

He wouldn't want to be followed. Any good pastor will point to Christ not himself.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Why do you keep quoting Enyart? Can't you answer for yourself?"

I think he answered this topic well.

[Jeremiah/Ezekiel] "Enlighten me."

For a body to function it needs different parts. They body of Christ is the same. Some are hearts (tender loving care). Some are kidneys (confronting and removing poison) [(Ro 12:5) Geraci].

"Perhaps you haven't had need of an understanding God...I have been broken in more ways than is fair to place on one person."

Pain is common to all men (Rom. 8:22).

Response to comment [from a Christian]: [Nicer Than God by Enyart] "I'm not discussing this with him. I'm discussing it with you."

A few housekeeping items: If I post a link, in general it means that I think it contains important information that the reader may wish to consider.

"I thought, are there not examples in the Bible, where God has been merciful and forgiving? In fact, is that not the whole point to His plan?"

True, his plan is merciful. But you acted as if God's character has changed from the Old Testament to the New. It hasn't. In the flood, for example, God's judgment upon sin and the wicked is revealed as well as his mercy (the waters receded and Noah's family was provided with a new world filled with new possibilities [Gen. 6–8]).

God is love and God is wrath. Both are right. If God is not just, he is not good. But God is just. Therefore, he is good.

[The body of Christ] "I would think that a balance of both is the best way."

That's why God makes people different. If a person is stubborn, God can raise up another person just as stubborn to get his point across if need be. The prophet Ezekiel did not even mourn the death of his wife (Ezek. 24:16–27). The watching world considered this unusual behavior; but God had a different plan and purpose for him.

Jeremiah was the "weeping prophet". He lamented over: Josiah (2 Chr. 35:25), the prosperity of the wicked (Jer. 12:1–6), the desolation of God’s heritage (Jer. 12:7–13), and over Jerusalem (Jer. 4:14–18; 8; 9:1; 10:19–22; 18:11). Swanson, J., & Nave, O. (1994). New Nave's. Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems.

"...behind [my] anger, was deep hurt."

You would not be the first person hurt by the world, other people, or God himself. Worship is loving God when you hurt.

"...[T]here were those who mocked me, attacked me. All this did was harden my heart even more."

J. Vernon McGee said that the heart is like clay or wax. When exposed to light, it hardens or melts.

"They planted the seed and allowed God to do the rest."

The seed isn't the problem. The soil is often the problem (Mt 13:3-23; Lu 8:5-15).

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Do you have his 5-year through the Bible Mp3 downloads?"

Yes. I podcast him daily.

"He is a very non-judgmental fellow in the way he talks."

Everyone seems to comment on his country drawl. Some are put off by it, but he eventually wins them over.

"Shame he's dead..."

Yes, he went home to be with the Lord in 1988.

"I would recommend his sermons and commentaries to anyone interested in going through the Bible verse by verse."

Me too! He's wonderful.

"I don't always agree 100% on what he says..."

I suggested that Knight start a thread for Topic of the Day on that--Who do you like? And where do you disagree? I only disagree with J. Vernon when it comes to young earth creation. But then again, he did not have the information that we have today. C-14 molecule found in dinosaur bones! I think that today he would be a young earth creationist.

"...[H]e was a very well educated intellectual man, even though he sounds like a real hick on the radio, haha!"

That's right. And he used to say, he that "puts the cookies on the bottom shelf where the kiddies can get at them." He had a simple, clear way of bringing scripture to life.

"God is Loving and Just, not wrath, I think you mean."

No. God is wrath (Ro 1:18). Wrath is just. God is good because he is just. His wrath is not capricious. As J. Vernon used to say, God cannot lower the bar of heaven's standards. He cannot slip you in by the cover of night. Sin must be judged. God's judgment reveals his righteousness (Ro 2:5).

Response to comment [from a pagan]: "[D]o you believe that salvation is through works?"

Salvation is by grace through faith (Eph 2:8).

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "I take it to mean there are some folks who know the truth out there and suppress the truth."

Yes, in unrighteousness (Ro 1:18).

"Americans (and others) are into worshiping the almighty dollar, power, status, etc."

Our idols (Ro 1:25).

"Sunday School"

Do you also like Veggie Tales? Love them.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Nicer than God (Enyart)."

Nicer Than God http://kgov.com/writings/nicer-god

"I don't like to be misquoted or have my posts taken out of context."

A few housekeeping items: I answer to the point that I believe is the most important (just to move things along).

[You acted as if God's character has changed from the Old Testament to the New.] "Did I now? Please, by all means, show me where I have 'acted' this way."

You said: ""Jesus did not quote the OT to her..."

[Worship is loving God when you hurt.] "Some people can't do that. That's my point."

That does not make their rebellious reaction right (Ec 7:9; Mt 5:22; Ro 12:19). Don't justify the wicked (Prov 17:15).

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Can't read where Enyart actually says "you must be nicer than God", so I'll assume you were taking poetic license."

It's the title of the writing. It was referenced and linked earlier in the thread.

[OT scripture reference] "...I did not post anything even remotely like this..."

I'm sorry. My mistake. That was Lucy:

"Jesus did not quote the OT to her..." http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2219975#post2219975

You said:

"[S]upposing she was angry with God, do you really think bombarding her with scripture is the best way to go?" http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2219293&highlight=bombarding#post2219293

"I'm not justifying anything...I'm talking about they way some people go about it. Ever heard the saying 'too heavenly to be any earthly good."?"

Go about it as you wish. That's a good thing.

The expression is: "too heavenly-minded to be of any earthly good!” It means--put your faith in shoe leather. Care about others enough to tell them the truth.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Actually, the title of the piece you posted a link to was 'Nicer than God."

A few times in the thread, right.

A little different to "you must be nicer than God...Quoting is a precise thing."

Enyart has said both--but say he hadn't (Technical Stuff). When quoting an individual, you may paraphrase them (either way of course crediting them with the original thought or idea). I'm old school--I like The Little Brown Handbook and Strunk & White Elements of Style.

"Shoe leather? I thought it meant something along the lines of, being too Godly you are unable to see the suffering of others...or some such thing."

I understand it to mean something different.

It reminds me of the bumper sticker: "The rapture is not an exit strategy". I believe the libs intended to mock President Bush and of course Christians by it, but it made me think of James 2:26. When did Americans adopt this phrase "exit strategy" anyway? We used to call it winning. Reagan had it right "We win. They loose."

Back to the original point--the Christian is to warn others of sin (Eze 33:9; Da 4:27). The Christian is not to rebuke other Christians for warning others of sin.

Response to comment [from a Wiccan]: "[Y]ou're driving me further away from Christianity?"

The wicked blame others for their sin (Ge 3:12,13; Ex 32:22-24). Make no mistake--unbelief is sin (Joh 16:9).

"I don't recall Jesus Christ judging people like you are..."

The "gentile" Jesus said: "bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ (Lk 19:27). ” He'll be your savior or he'll be your judge.

"[Y]ou're assuming I've had an abortion now?...I love children!...I would never in a million years harm one!...However....a clump of cells is not a human being!...Just because I don't disagree with abortion, does not mean I think everybody should get one!"

You are a child killer (Prov 23:7). Men are responsible for their worldview (Prov 8:36). You may not personally own blacks or kill Jews but you are ok with it if others do?

You love children? You called children "a clump of cells".

"[L]et's try going with my plan to practice safe sex."

...And you're a fornicator. Again, TMI. The germs and bacteria that you are planning to spread--.

There is no safe sex but within the confines of marriage (1 Cor. 6:9; 2 Cor. 12:21; Eph. 5:5; Col. 3:5; 1 Thess. 4:3; 1 Tim. 1:10; Heb. 13:4; Jude 7).

"I know like ten people who are pregnant right now and only one is planning on aborting the child! Want to know why? She's fifteen! And the man left her!"

Men who impregnate 15 year old girls usually do attempt to destroy the evidence and then leave. Encourage her to seek Christian advice and counseling. Children are not to be put to death for the crimes of their fathers (Deut 24:16). We are free to obey God and choose life (Dt. 30:19, NKJV).

See:

Teens in Need http://www.vananne.com/teensinneed/

"[I]f heaven exists and it's filled with people like you, I'll take my chances in Hell, thank you."

You will (Isa 48:22).

Response to comment [from other]: "...[I]t might behoove one to consider how 'true' their presentation of God actually is..."

God's identity is all-important. God was made (new nature). And God was declared to be God. God became a man and dwelt among us (Jn 1:14).

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory [1 Tim. 3:16].

"This verse probably constitutes one of the earliest creeds of the church. Some think that it was one of the songs of the early church.

“Without controversy”—means confessedly, or obviously.

“Great is the mystery of godliness.” The mystery of godliness is that God in the person of Jesus Christ entered this world in which we live, paid the penalty of sin, and is making men and women godly—that is, with Godlikeness.

“God was manifest in the flesh.” Certainly Paul is teaching the virgin birth of Christ, but he is also speaking of Christ’s existence before His incarnation. That existence was spiritual: He was “… in the form of God …” (Phil. 2:6). Hebrews speaks of Christ as “… being the brightness [effulgence] of his [God’s] glory, and the express image of his person …” (Heb. 1:3). The Lord Jesus Himself said, “God is a Spirit …” (John 4:24).

Now from this condition as God—not seen with human eyes—Christ came into manifestation—into sight—in the flesh. He became a man and entered into human conditions. And under these human conditions the attributes of His essential spiritual personality were veiled. This is the thought John gives in his gospel: “… The Word was made [became] flesh.” He was born flesh “and dwelt [pitched His tent here] among us …” (see John 1:14). Just as God was not visible in the tabernacle in the wilderness, so Jesus Christ was veiled when He tabernacled among us in human flesh. He did not appear to men what He really was; man did not recognize who He was. The One who in the beginning was God, was with God, and who made all things, became a little, helpless baby. He was the image of the invisible God and had all power in heaven and in earth, but down here He took upon Himself human flesh. Because He was not recognized by man, He was treated as an imposter, a usurper, and a blasphemer. He was hated, persecuted, and murdered. God manifest in the flesh was poor, was tempted and tried, and actually shed tears.

“Justified in the Spirit.” Yet in all that, He was not justified in the flesh, but in the Spirit. He was manifest in the flesh—that is how the world saw Him; but He was justified or vindicated in the Spirit in His resurrection. There were times when His glory broke out down here; there were revelations and expressions and witnesses of who He really was. There were angels at His virgin birth. His glory was seen at His baptism, at His transfiguration, and at the time of His arrest. The things that occurred at the time of His crucifixion caused the watching centurion to say, “Truly this was the Son of God” (see Matt. 27:54). But it was when He came back from the dead that we see Him now justified. He was manifest in the flesh, but justified in the Spirit: “sown a natural body; raised a spiritual body” (see 1 Cor. 15:44). No enemy laid a hand upon Him after He was raised from the dead. He will never be dishonored again.

However, because He came down here and has now returned to the right hand of God, we can be justified. Down here He was delivered up for our offenses—He took our place as a sinner, and now He gives us His place up yonder and we are justified. How wonderful this is!

“Seen of angels”—it doesn’t say that He saw angels; rather, they saw Him. He has gone back to heaven, and now all the created intelligences of heaven worship Him because He wrought redemption for mankind. Little man down here hasn’t caught on yet, but the song that will be sung throughout eternity is the song of redemption.

“Preached unto the Gentiles [the nations]”—this is still happening today.

“Believed on in the world.” Many today are trusting Him as their Savior.

“Received up into glory.” Today Christ is at God’s right hand. At this very moment, my friend, He is there. Have you talked to Him today? Have you told Him that you love Him, and have you thanked Him for all He has done? How wonderful He is!"

McGee, J. V. (1997, c1981). Thru the Bible commentary. Based on the Thru the Bible radio program. (electronic ed.) (5:445-446). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"...[T]he manner...of delivery and sharing is important....Spouting long lists of scripture has nil effect on me"

You are a false teacher, denying the Lordship of Jesus Christ (2 Jn 10). You may not accept good doctrine, but the reader must know the word of God (1 Ti 4:16).