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Pastor Gino Geraci, Calvary South Denver, gave an example on the radio today of a man who is given money. He is to distribute the money to five of his closest friends. Some friends end up getting money and others do not. Should the ones who got nothing be angry?

Did they deserve money at all?

He says that because we don't deserve to go to heaven,

no one can be angry if it had been predetermined by God that they should go to hell.

Pastor Gino:

1. "Stop asking yourself easy questions so you can look like a genius." Jo, The Office

2. If this is how God is, than God is cruel. Thankfully, this is not how God operates.

See:

Does God Elect Everyone?

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "The difference between the man in that story and God is that God is fully Just, and because God is Just in everything He does, He will not give some a chance to be saved and yet leave the others without any chance at all. To do that would be unfair; can someone be Just yet unfair? No, therefore, God must give all an equal chance to be saved."

God doesn't have to give everyone a chance but he does. Geraci's belief diminishes Christ's sacrifice and his grace. If we do not believe that our witnessing makes a difference, it also diminishes our passion to teach and preach the truth (2 Co 5:11).

See:

Ro 8:28 J. Vernon McGee

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Salvation comes only by the undeserved gift of God."

He wants all people to be saved (2 Pe 3:9). Many refuse (Mt 7:14).

If a Christian gets the sense that he is speaking with one who refuse anyway,

why would he continue to witness

to said person? Somewhere in his mind he must be saying, "This must be one of those

non-selected types."

One day when we head toward eternity Jesus will wipe away our tears (Re 21:4). Why are there tears? We will realize that we could have tried harder. Decisions really did matter. We should have known that (Re 2:11).

"What dirty rotten sinner would ever dare to find fault with Holy God for showing mercy and grace to any and many who are totally undeserving?"

People would rightfully find fault in God if he created a being and never gave him a chance to choose life (Deut 30:19). No need to override your own common sense.

People can choose God and he hopes they will (Eze 33:11).

See:

Does God Know Your Entire Future?

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "That[']s a false statement! The seed of the serpent, the vessels of wrath, were made for destruction eternally, they never had a chance for salvation."

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? [Rom. 9:22–24].

"Paul has already established the fact that God is free to act in the mystery and majesty of His sovereignty. Now Paul shows that God deals in patience and mercy even with the vessels of wrath. God did not fit them for destruction; the rebellion and sin of the clay made them ripe for judgment. God would have been right in exercising immediate judgment, but He dealt with these vessels, not as lifeless clay, but as creatures with a free will. He gave them ample opportunity to reveal any inclination they might have of obeying God. Although God hates sin and must judge it in a most final manner, His mercy is constantly going out to the creatures involved.

God suggests that the “vessels of wrath” are the Jewish nation, which was destroyed in a.d. 70. Jesus, you recall, announced this destruction, but He wept over the city, and He prayed, “… Father, forgive them …” (Luke 23:34). When the final judgment came in a.d. 70, God saved a remnant. These were “vessels of mercy.”" McGee, J. Vernon: Thru the Bible Commentary. electronic ed. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1981, S. 4:714

"In fact Hell was made for them with their Father the Devil and His Angels Matt 25:41."

Response to comment [from a "Christian"]: "Your double predestination view still impugns the character and ways and makes Him partial, limited, unjust, arbitrary. There are better explanations for why some are saved, but not others.

I don't understand how thinking people can accept your view/TULIP."

And just to be clear--Geraci does not believe in double predestination. He says "predestination is taught in scripture." No argument--predestination is taught in scripture (Ro 8:23, 29; 9:23, Ac 2:23, 13:48, 22:10, Lk 22:22, Ga 3:8, 2 Ti 1:9). What meaning we pour into the concept of predestination is what is at issue.

"The Calvinistic view cannot escape double predestination (problematic, false). Open Theism gives a more biblical view of predestination (Arminian would be better than Calvinism)."

Right, the Calvinist and the Armenian both have problems. I agree, the issue must be discussed with open theism for a full understanding of the biblical view. And a broken clock is right twice a day, RandomThoughts.

Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: "[S]erp, [w]hat if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction. Yes, That verse proves my point!"

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "What all would we say though if all we talked about was the will of man? Is it ever an enemy to God? Does it ever say why?"

Man cannot profit God (Job 22:2; Ps 16:2). God already had perfect fellowship in the godhead. Salvation is the work of: the Father, the Son and the Sprit (2 Th 2:13,14; Tit 3:4-6; 1 Pe 1:2).

God doesn't need you or I to get anyone saved. He gives us the opportunity to be brought into the plan because he's gracious. Psa. 111:9; Psa. 130:7; Matt. 20:28 Mark 10:45. Luke 2:38; Acts 20:28; Rom. 3:24–26; 1 Cor. 1:30; 1 Cor. 6:20; 1 Cor. 7:23; Gal. 1:4; Gal. 2:20; Gal. 4:4, 5; Eph. 1:7; Eph. 5:2; Col. 1:14, 20–22; 1 Tim. 2:6; Tit. 2:14; Heb. 9:12, 15; 1 Pet. 1:18, 19; Rev. 5:9, 10.

"But that is not totally fair maybe because there are times when men came seeking to find God or something of God."

The same thing that happens to Roman Catholics (Jude 11) or any other work-based religion.

Response to comment [from a Jehovah's Witness]: "Duh, it proves that God created some for the purpose of destruction. 2 Thess 1:9"

...But that wouldn't be you, Jehovah's Witness,

would it.

"2 Pe 2:1 — But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies...The best way to recognize counterfeit doctrine is to become thoroughly familiar with the truth.

Someone whose mind has been trained to know and love the truth will not easily be led astray by false teaching...

...2 Thess 1:9 — These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power...The worst thing about hell is not any physical suffering that may be involved, but the intense loneliness of absolute separation from the Creator, the Giver of life. Those who want no part of God will get their way in hell." Stanley, Charles F.: The Charles F. Stanley Life Principles Bible : New King James Version. Nashville, TN : Nelson Bibles, 2005, S. 2 Th 1:9

Response to comment [from a "Christian"]: "Huh? Beloved57 is a hyper-Calvinist...If you are so wrong about this, how can we trust your integrity/credibility with anything you say (including denying my salvation, etc.)."

Poisoning the well (Eph 4:14). We judge you based on your own claims (Pr 31:9).

SD: “ Could he [jesus] have sinned?
Godrulz: “I believe He could have, but did not…” link

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent (Nu 23:19).

SD: “ Could he [jesus] have sinned?
Godrulz: “I believe He could have, but did not…” link

Who is the Word of God? Jn 1:1-3 John W. says he's been trying to get you to answer this question for years.

Should we file this in the Godrulz ...crickets...

section?

"[T]he dude's ear was partially created through innate, God-given procreation possibilities..."

[Beloved57 quote: "Don't worry about me, but yourself. The fact still remains that God created a portion of mankind specifically for everlasting destruction and it ain't nothing that can be done to change it!]"We reject your view that impugns the character and ways of God..."

You attempt to impugn God's character, too.

SD: “ Could he [jesus] have sinned?
Godrulz: “I believe He could have, but did not…” link

God, the Father is holy. God, the Son is Holy. YHWH is holy. Ex 15:11; 1 Sa 2:2. Is Jesus YHWH?

From the crickets

file: Is he indivisible from the Godhead? Heb 1:3. What other member of the Godhead could sin? link

`"Did God the Father get hungry, tired, thirsty, die like the Son did on earth?"

"The Father and Son are one nature, but that does not mean the Father/Spirit incarnated and added humanity."

"There are some things about the incarnate Son's experience on earth that are not identical to His pre-existence of the existence of the triune God's relations/oneness of nature."

SD: “ Could he [jesus] have sinned?
Godrulz: “I believe He could have, but did not…” link

In what way do you believe I confuse the trinity (God, the Father; God, the Son and God, the Holy Spirit [Ex 20:2; Jn 20:28; Ac 5:3,4]) with the incarnation (Jn 1:4). Jesus condemned sin in the flesh. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh (Ro 8:8) yet without sin (Heb 4:15).

"We have here the whole crux of the matter. Let me give my translation, which may bring out several things we need to understand. “For the thing impossible for the Law in which it was powerless through the flesh, God, having sent His own Son in the likeness of the flesh of sin, and in regard to sin, He condemned the sin in the flesh; in order that the justification (the righteous result) of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to flesh but according to Spirit.”

It was impossible for the Law to produce righteousness in man. This is not the fault of the Law. The fault lay in man and the sin in his flesh. The Law was totally incapable of producing any good thing in man. Paul could say, “For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing” (Rom. 7:18). And, friend, that is Scripture, and that is accurate. Man is totally depraved. That doesn’t mean only the man across the street or down in the next block from you, nor does it mean only some person who is living in overt sin; it means you and it means me. The Holy Spirit is now able to do the impossible. The Holy Spirit can produce a holy life in weak and sinful flesh. Let me illustrate this truth by using a very homely incident. Suppose a housewife puts a roast in the oven right after breakfast because she is going to serve it for the noon meal. The telephone rings. It is Mrs. Joe Dokes on the phone. Mrs. Dokes begins with “Have you heard?” Well, the housewife hasn’t heard, but she would like to; so she pulls up a chair. (Someone has defined a woman as one who draws up a chair when answering a telephone.) Mrs. Dokes has a lot to tell, and about an hour goes by. Finally our good housewife says, “Oh, Mrs. Dokes, you’ll have to excuse me. I smell the roast—its burning!” She hangs up the phone, rushes to the kitchen, and opens the oven. Then she gets a fork and puts it down in the roast to lift it up, but it won’t hold. She can’t lift it out. She tries again, closer to the bone, but still it won’t hold. So she gets a spatula. She puts the spatula under the roast and lifts it out. You see, what the fork could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, the spatula is able to do. Now, there is nothing wrong with the fork—it was a good fork. But it couldn’t hold the flesh because something was wrong with the flesh—it was overcooked. The spatula does what the fork could not do.

The Law is like the fork in that it was weak through the flesh. It just won’t lift us up; it can’t lift us up. But a new principle is introduced: the Holy Spirit. What the Law could not do, the Holy Spirit is able to do. Therefore, you and I are to live the Christian life on this new principle. We are not to try to lift ourselves up by our own bootstraps. We’ll never make it that way, my friend. We make resolutions and say, “I’m going to do better”—all of us have said that. But did we ever do better? Didn’t we do the same old things?

God is able to do this new impossible thing by sending His very own Son, His own nature in the likeness of sinful flesh. Christ had the same kind of flesh that we have, apart from sin. Notice how the writer to the Hebrews puts it: “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil…. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people” (Heb. 2:14, 16–17). Also he says, “For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens” (Heb. 7:26). Then he says, “Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me” (Heb. 10:5).

This was God’s way of getting at the roots of sin in our bodies, minds, and spirits. He could condemn and execute sinful flesh on the cross so that it had no more rights in human beings. God was able to deal with sin itself—Christ was identified with us—what condescension! Sin has been condemned in these bodies of ours. It has not been removed, in spite of the belief of some very sincere people. These bodies are to be redeemed—“… raised a spiritual body … ” (1 Cor. 15:44). Today, the Holy Spirit is the Deliverer from sin in the body. A great many people think it would be wonderful if Christ would come and take us out of this world of sin—and that would be wonderful. I wish He would come right now. However, there is something even more wonderful than that. It is this: He enables you and me to live the Christian life right where we are today in this old world of sin. That is more wonderful. Our Lord Jesus said in His high priestly prayer, “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil” (John 17:15). Down here is where the victory is.

“That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled”—this is the passive voice. It means that the Holy Spirit produces a life of obedience which the Law commanded but could not produce. The Holy Spirit furnishes the power; the decision is ours..."

McGee, J. Vernon: Thru the Bible Commentary. electronic ed. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1981, S. 4:695-697

"...Although in His incarnation Christ became fully man (see note on 1:3), He took only the outward appearance of sinful flesh, because He was completely without sin (Heb. 4:15). condemned sin in the flesh. God’s condemnation against sin was fully poured out on the sinless flesh of Christ (Is. 53:4–8; cf. Phil. 2:7)."

MacArthur, John Jr: The MacArthur Study Bible. electronic ed. Nashville : Word Pub., 1997, c1997, S. Ro 8:3

Let's. Stick Jn 1:1-3 in your pipe and smoke it.

Jesus is indivisible from the godhead. Jn 1:1-3 isn't going anywhere.

Ad hominem.

What is nuanced about Heb 4:15?

Jesus is "without sin" or he is not.

Death isn’t natural (Ge 2:17; Ro 5:12, Ga 5:19-21, 6:8, Ro 7:5). Explain why 100% of people die? Eze 18:20, Ge 2:17; Ro 5:12. Did Jesus sin? Heb 4:15. Why did he die? 1 Pet. 1:18, 19