New Page 0

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "I certainly hope not, since Jesus himself used sarcasm quite effectively to drive home various points."

Did he drive home the point that you have broken God's law and cannot earn his favor? Lu 16:15; 18:9, Pr 17:15, Ro 3:23, Isa 64:6.

Is the Jesus of the Bible inconvenient for you?

Do you believe you can earn grace? Ro 10:3. Do you believe you have any righteousness of your own? Tit 3:5. Have you ever done a good work? 1 Jn 2:29.

Your religion is work-based. Christianity is faith-based. How can you do a "good" work when you have not obeyed God's word? He is righteous, you are not (1 Jn 2:29).

"...According to many Reformers, Satan's crown jewel is the Roman Catholic religion. It is his most seductive and deceptive form of counterfeit Christianity in the world. Granted, there are many other apostate churches, but none compare in the size, power, influence and wealth to the apostate church headquartered in Rome. The problem most Catholics have is they have been indoctrinated from birth with the lie that they belong to the one true Church. By believing this lie, they have no incentive to read God's word and therefore they cannot discern truth from error. I pray you will ask God to reveal His truth to you as you abide in His Word (Proclaiming the Gospel, Vol 18 no. 4)..." Full text: Roman Catholicism

The traditions of the Roman Catholic Church are not biblical (Mt 15:9, Mk 7:8, 9, 7:6, 7, Col 2:8).

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Humor at someone's expense should not be used for entertainment purposes. Sarcasm usually triggers a chuckle because it makes someone momentarily appear absurd. This someone is made in God's image, so this should not be used lightly, frivolously, for silliness, etc."

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "Being indifferent to one's brother is not the same as hating one's brother."

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "The humor of Jesus of Nazareth (He'd probably say something about your teeth as well sd..."

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Oh well, I'm sure Gerald would help you pull your teeth out of a corn cob if necessary."

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "I didn't bring my gibberish-English/English-gibberish dictionary."

"...I've heard it said that the true opposite of love isn't the passionate intensity of hate at all, but the emptiness of indifference....Perhaps the point of [1 Jn 4:18] has never been about banishing love's antithesis, but the inevitable side-effects that accompany it..." Curing Love's Inevitable Side-Effect by Lisa McKay. 1 Jn 4:8.

"You'll need more than a pity party to make your case.

Why do you shy away from

Catholic traditions? Re 22:11.

You have no problem with their false teachings.

"I reject your assumption that your preferred anti-Catholic interpretations of the Bible are, in fact, true."

I give out God's word. Admitting that there is a divide between works and faith might give you more credibility. Agree with God that you are: wretched, poor, and blind (Re 3:17). Repent of all your religion (Jude 11).

See:

Grace

Works vs Faith

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "You give out your preferred interpretations of God's word..."

Christ (not the Pope) is the head of the church (Eph 1:22; 5:23). The Holy Spirit (not a priest) takes the things of God and makes them real to the believer (1 Co 2:10,13). He (not the Roman Catholic Church) guides us into all truth (Jn 14:26; 16:13).

"...[W]e can all simply ignore your opinions regarding the supposed meaning of the Bible."

Every person must compare what you or I say with scripture (2 Pet. 1:20, 21). For the Roman Catholic, the final authority is an apostate church (Rev. 3:14–22). For the Christian, the final authority is the word of God.

[Christ (not the Pope) is the head of the church] "Both are "head" of the Church in entirely different senses...False Dilemma Fallacy."

You removed the scripture (2 Cor. 4:2). I'll return it to the conversation (Eph 2:22, 5:23). I made a truth claim. The claim is either true or it is false. A dilemma will occur if you believe Rome (2 Thess 2:11).

[He (not the Roman Catholic Church) guides us into all truth.] "He leads his hierarchical Church into all truth."

You removed the scripture (2 Cor. 4:2). I'll return it to the conversation (Jn 14:26; 16:13). I made another truth claim. It is either true or it is false. The body of Christ is an organic body of believers worldwide (Col. 1:24, Eph. 2:16, Eph. 1:22, 1:23). Christ (not the Pope) is the head of his church (Eph. 1:22).

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "For the non-Catholic, the final authority is his own fallible preferences and opinions, according to which he inevitably interprets the Bible."

"Every verse of the Bible means exactly what the author intended it to mean..." Full text: How to Interpret the Bible by Darrell Ferguson

What hermeneutic do you use to study scripture?

It is the Holy Spirit who takes the things of God and makes them real to the believer (1 Co 2:10,13). When you are indwelled with the Holy Spirit, he reveals the things of Christ (Jn 16:14). He directs the believer in the way of godliness (Isa 30:21; Eze 36:27) and guides us into all truth (Jn 14:26; 16:13). The natural man does not receive him (1 Co 2:14).

See:

Hermeneutics

[What hermeneutic do you use to study scripture?] "The same one used by the Fathers of the Church from the very beginning."

For the Christian, God is: living, personal, relational, good and loving. Do you agree?

"God designed us for relationship, and relationships consist of emotional bonds. We know that by the ways we connect closely with other people. This doesn't happen simply through shared information or shared experiences. You can sit in a long class or business meeting sharing a lot of information with a lot of other people, but your relationship with them many not be any deeper after the meeting is over (A Matter of the Heart: Connecting Emotionally with God by Chris Tiegreen, In Touch pg. 29)."

Do you agree that God exists? He is eternal (De 33:27; Ps 90:2; Re 4:8-10) immortal (1 Ti 1:17; 6:16) and triune? Mt 3:16,17; 28:19; Ro 8:9; 1Co 12:3-6; 2Co 13:14; Eph 4:4-6; 1Pe 1:2; Jude 1:20,21; Re 1:4,5.

Sidebar: "...The key isn't the facts you're exposed to with others or the situations you encounter together. Closeness is created by the shared emotional responses to that information and those experiences. When our feelings ling up with someone else's, we feel a connection. When they don't, we don't. That's how we bond in a relationship (Tiegreen, pg. 30)."

Your hermeneutic is: "What

that guy said."?

[Relationship] "...It's the same way with God. He doesn't tell us just to learn His attributes and be able to describe what He is like, or even just to obey Him. He calls us into a relationship--one that is deep and intimate. We're supposed to grow continually closer to Him throughout our lives...If we don't learn to feel the way He feels, we don't connect; we never really know Him (Tigreen, pg. 30)."

[Relationship] "...We were designed to have His heartbeat: to come to feel the way He feels, love what He loves, get angry about the things that anger Him, and feel compassion when He feels compassion. But far too often, when He stirs up feelings within us--or even just wants us to confront our own human emotions--we push them aside, thinking it's safer just to focus on knowing and doing. We rely on our own intellect and willpower. The result is that we learn a lot and perform some good works, but our heart doesn't beat with His (Tigreen, pg. 30)."

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: [Rebuked by the Satanist: "Your concern is trying to defend the Church, not condemn it. Your heart and priorities are sick and warped. Absolutely incorrect. It's at this point that I understand what it's like to talk to people who deny the moon landings or the Holocaust. In the face of absolutely unimpeachable evidence, a true zealot, nut, or liar will simply...deny. Either you're a true idiot, a misinformer or disinformer, or you're completely naive and poorly read. Last but not least, you may just be lying and expect others here to fall for what you're selling. The reality of worldwide child abuse by the Catholic Church is well documented (and will continue to be so). For you to deny otherwise is to degrade and insult the Church's victims and to support the perverts and sadists who committed this abuse. Fine company you keep. I'm reminded of Sarte complaining in the 1930s about the gulags--he acknowledged their existence but was only really outraged about how the bougeois press was using the camps to misrepresent the glorious USSR. This kind of demented, perverse doublethink doesn't change. For you to continually deny what your Church has done--and is surely still doing--puts you in a position of supporting a global cabal of child abuse. That's my last post in this thread. I refuse to dignify what you stand for and the men you keep on defending a second longer. People like you are the reason thousands of children were abused with impunity."] "You've been answered and are frustrated..."

The Satanist makes valid points. You defend wicked false teachers because you're one of them (Gal. 1:6–8).

[What is your hermeneutic?] ...crickets...

[Do you agree that God exists? He is eternal (De 33:27; Ps 90:2; Re 4:8-10) immortal (1 Ti 1:17; 6:16), and triune? Mt 3:16,17; 28:19; Ro 8:9; 1Co 12:3-6; 2 Co 13:14; Eph 4:4-6; 1Pe 1:2; Jude 1:20,21; Re 1:4,5.] ...crickets...

[If everything you believed was wrong, would you want to know?] "It was. Then I became Catholic."

...crickets...

By this do you mean that Catholics cannot be wrong? You cannot be wrong?

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Already answered."

The link provided Catholic beliefs. It did not provide Cruciform's own tools for studying scripture. If he has no tool in his toolbox, he can say so. If his only tool is "What

that guy said," say so.

Does Cruciform study the Bible? If so, how?

"Of course individual Catholics can be wrong in their interpretations of God's word. The teachings and interpretations of Christ's historic Church, however, are true and authoritative."

Your church cannot be wrong? Do you trust your church or do you trust Jesus? Jn 14:6.

"The link outlined the Catholic hermeneutic. The Catholic hermeneutic is my method for studying the Bible. They are one and the same."

I read declarations. How did they come to believe what they believe? What tool (just one will do) do you use to study the Bible?

[Can the Roman Catholic Church be wrong?] "Christ's Church cannot be wrong in matters of faith and morals. The Church's formal doctrines are infallibly true and authoritative."

If that is true, why have Roman Catholic teachings changed over the years? Why have

"infallible" Pope's changed their minds? Do you believe that any of these teaching are biblical? They are not, by way. http://pro-gospel.org/x2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=34&Itemid=1

Back to my original question: If everything you believed was wrong, would you want to know? If your church cannot be wrong, what is there to know? Act 17:11.

If they know it all, why study? If you do study the Bible, give us one tool that you use for this purpose (it doesn't have to be perfect).

What will be your final authority--the Roman Catholic Church (2 Cor. 4:2, Rev. 22:18, 19) or the Word of God? Ps 138:2, 1 Pet. 1:23.

You nullify the Word of God by your traditions that you have handed down (Mark 7:13).

[Do you trust your church or do you trust Jesus?] Both.

The Roman Catholic Church does not save. The Protestant church does not save. Cults and 'isms do not save. Jesus saves (Acts 4:12, Eph. 1:13). If you have believed differently, you must confess (Ac 2:21).

How does the method work in practice? Tell us in your own words what you do to study the Bible. Do you really study the Bible

or do you only study what the Roman Catholic Church teaches? If the Roman Catholic Church were in error, how would you know? Would you want to know? Jer 5:31.

"My final doctrinal authority is the authoritative and binding teachings of Christ's historic Church."

When you have humbled yourself you will believe the truth (Ps 118:8). There is nothing you can do to earn salvation (Heb 11:1, 6). The only way to heaven is having confidence in Jesus' substitutionary sacrificial death on the cross, which paid the penalty we owed for our sin (Jn 14:6). Faith is nothing we can create within ourselves. Scripture is clear that it is a gift of God (Ro 12:3).

Appellations of honor are condemned by Christ (Matt. 23:1–10). Peter considered himself a "fellow elder" (1 Pe 5:1).

Paul healed a crippled man and people praised him as a "chief speaker" (Ac 14:12). How did Paul and Barnabas react?

"When the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this, ^lthey tore their clothes and ran in among the multitude, crying out ¹⁵ and saying, “Men, ^mwhy are you doing these things? ⁿWe also are men with the same nature as you."

^l Num. 14:6; Matt. 26:65; Mark 14:63

^m Acts 10:26

ⁿ James 5:17

The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. Ac 14:14-15

How did Peter react when Cornelius fell down at his feet?

"Peter lifted him up, saying, ^p“Stand up; I myself am also a man.”

^p Acts 14:14, 15; Rev. 19:10; 22:8

The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. Ac 10:26

Evangelists, prophets, teachers, etc. describe co-laborers who share Christ, spiritual mentors who explain biblical truths (1 Pe 4:10-11). Christians serve one another--Holy and reverenced is (not the Pope, not a priest) his name (KJV, Ps 111:9). 1 Cor 4:6, 1 Jn 4:1.

[Hermeneutic: How does the method work in practice? Tell us in your own words what you do to study the Bible.] "I interpret it through the lens of authoritative Catholic teachings..."

Your one and only hermeneutic is believing Rome--not so noble is it? Ac 17:11.

"You trust in men in precisely the same manner that I do--just in the wrong men."

I trust the word of God (Ps 138:2, Ps 118:8). Men lie (Pr. 6:19). God does not (Ps. 119:160). If you are humble and would like the truth (Heb 4:12), it is available in God's word. We are to compare scripture with scripture not scripture to men's opinion (2 Pet. 1:20, 21). God's word is pure (Ps 12:6; 119:140; Pr 30:5). Men are corrupt (Mt 5:19).

[Faith is nothing we can create within ourselves. Scripture is clear that it is a gift of God (Ro 12:3).] "The Catholic Church in no way teaches that we can "create faith within ourselves." Did you really assume otherwise?"

Ad hominem. I have not misrepresented Roman Catholic teachings. Mike Gendon (Current Newsletter Pro-Gospel.orgpg. 4. http://www.pro-gospel.org/x2/pdf/Vol20No1b.pdflinked) was a Roman Catholic for some 30 some years. He has dedicated his life to sharing the truth with Catholics. You may want to spend some time reading letters written to him.

"Peter being a "fellow elder" negate his higher status as the Rock upon which the Church was founded..."

You were not meant to make idols of: Peter, rocks, Popes or priests. Ex 20:2,3; De 5:7.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it [Matt. 16:18].

"Let us look at this verse carefully. On what rock did Jesus build His church? There are those who say that it was built on Simon Peter. Well, obviously it was not, because there is a play upon words here. In the original Greek it is, “Thou art Petros [a little piece of rock], and upon this petra [bedrock] I will build my church.” There are others who hold that Christ is building His church upon the confession that Simon Peter made. I don’t agree with that at all.

Who is the Rock? The Rock is Christ. The church is built upon Christ. We have Simon Peter’s own explanation of this. In 1 Peter 2:4, referring to Christ, he writes, “To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious.” And he remembers Isaiah 28:16, “… Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded” (1 Pet. 2:6). The church is built upon Christ; He is the foundation. “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Cor. 3:11). Christ is the stone, and He says on this rock He will build His church. The church was still future when the Lord made this statement. And please don’t tell me there was a church in the Old Testament because the church did not come into existence until after the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ, and the sending of the Holy Spirit. There could not have been a church until all of these things had taken place. “I will build my church”—this was future.

The “gates of hell” refers to death. The word used for hell is the Greek word hades, the sheol of the Old Testament, which refers to the unseen world and means “death.” The gates of death shall not prevail against Christ’s church. One of these days the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout. That shout will be like the voice of an archangel and like a trumpet because the dead in Christ are to be raised. The gates of death shall not prevail against His church."

McGee, J. Vernon: Thru the Bible Commentary. electronic ed. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1981, S. 4:92

"When have I ever suggested that clerical leaders in the Church are anything more than men?"

Strawman.

[Evangelists, prophets, teachers, etc. describe co-laborers who share Christ, spiritual mentors who explain biblical truths (1 Pe 4:10-11). Christians serve one another--Holy and reverenced is (not the Pope, not a priest) his name.] "Here you're merely engaging in the False Dilemma Fallacy."

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means." ~ Inigo Montoya

See:

List of Fallacies

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "What do you mean by "relational"?"

If we read the Bible, we quickly see that God is relational (from eternity past in the godhead [Jn 1:1, Jn 5:31]) and with his creation (Gen. 1:26–28). Note the character of God's people (e.g. humble, loving, etc.).

God created us (Pr 16:4; Re 4:11) for his purposes (Ge 2:5,7). My question for Cruciform is--is God relational? Did he relate to Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob? Is he living and active in the life of the believer (Heb 4:12) or is he the stone cold idol of Greek paganism (Enyart).

[I trust the word of God...Men lie...God does not.] "Your claim here is hopelessly naive."

You removed the scripture (Ps 138:2, Ps 118:8, Pr 6:19). I'll return it to the conversation. The claim is true or it is false but it is not naive. As my pastor likes to say: If I can talk you into something, someone a whole lot smarter than me can talk you out of it. You sell snake oil.

"I can show you in the Catechism."

I own one. If I get a bird, I'll be sure to use it.

[I have not misrepresented Roman Catholic teachings.] "Sorry, but you clearly have."

Ad hominem. Misrepresenting Catholics does not advance my argument. Let the reader decide.

"Gendon possesses precious little genuine knowledge of the Catholic faith..."

He was a Catholic for 30 years--31 years would have made all the difference. It is possible to understand Roman Catholic teaching and reject it based on scripture.

""Idolatry" involves the worship of objects..."

Did I miss an object that you forgot to worship? (Graven images. Isa 45:20; Ho 11:2, Senseless idols. De 4:28; Ps 115:5,7, Dumb idols. Hab 2:18., Dumb Stones. Hab 2:19.).

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "So, relational in that if you say something to Him, He'll say something back?"

He could say something to our spirit (Jn 4:24). God primarily speak to us through his word (1 Thess. 2:13).

"Well, my "spirit" appears to be completely non-functional..."

You are not alive in Christ (Eph 2:5, Eze 36:26).

"...and Scripture has never in my entire life moved me in any way, so I guess I'm just Simply Out of Luck."

I tried several times to get through scripture myself, starting in Genesis. My eyes inevitably glazed over by the time I got to the genealogies. No, you're not out of luck. As Adrian Rogers puts it: God does business with those that mean business. He knows if you want to know him.

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "The simple fact is that posting isolated and out-of-context biblical prooftexts is pointless and irrelevant..."

Truly, you love the word of God (Jn 1:1).

"Since you're obviously not interested either in genuinely understanding..."

What's to understand? You said that Rome cannot be wrong. You trust Rome; therefore, you can't be wrong. Do you pass out flowers at the airport? Ps 118:8, Ps 138:2.

See:

Works vs. Faith

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "I do indeed love God's word---just not your erroneous interpretations and applications..."

Ad hominem.

Truth is truth independent from me.

“Every verse of the Bible means exactly what the author intended it to mean…” Full text: How to Interpret the Bible

If you loved God's word, you would obey the gospel of Jesus Christ (2 Th 1:8,9).

"The first duty of the Christian apologist is to properly comprehend and accurately represent his opponent's position."

Ad hominem.

Let the reader decide.

[Truth is truth independent from me.] "Already fully answered and refuted in previous posts..."

God's word is true (1 Pet. 4:11). Your religion is false (Rev. 3:14–22). You have heard the truth but fail to believe (Ac 4:4, 18:8, Eph 1:13). It won't end well for you (2 Th 1:8,9).

"Right back at you."

There's is one way to heaven. It is in the person of Jesus Christ (Jn 14:6). In (not the Roman Catholic Church) him we were also chosen, having been predestined (Eph 1:11). They came into existence and were marked out by (not the Roman Catholic Church) him (Ro 8:29). He called them to come to (not the Roman Catholic Church) him (Ro 8:30).

It won't end well for you if you do not repent of your false religion (Jude 11).

"...[S]tring of False Dilemma blunders."

The dilemma is real. You are a sinner in need of a savior. Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

"Right back at you, friend."

I do not call false teachers "friend". You try to lead people astry--out of safe "pastures" (Mt 7:15). If people believe you, they are on dangerous ground theologically. Eph 2:8.

"I try to love my enemies, as my Lord requires..."

Pious platitude. If you loved your enemies, you'd tell them the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ (Ro 1:16).

The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) is our salvation (Lev 20:8). The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) is our righteousness (Jer 23:5, 6; 33:16). The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) will provide (Ge 22:14). The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) is our peace (Jdg 6:24). The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) will fulfill his purpose (Ro 9:29; Jas 5:4). The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) has headship over us. The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) is our banner (Ex 17:8–15). The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) is all-sufficient (Ex 6:3).

You cannot earn or demand salvation. It is a gift of God (Eph 2:5,8; 2Ti 1:9; Tit 2:11).

[Pious platitude :rolleyes:] "Your glib disdain for Christ's command is noted."

Strawman. The Lord's law is not grievous (1 Jn 5:3). Does your church have a different take? Mt 23:4.

" Holier than thou: God condemned those who considered themselves more self-righteous than their counterparts when he spoke against this attitude in Isaiah 65:2-5 (KJV). God mocked those who took such a position (MacGregor & Prys, pg. 62)."

[The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) is our salvation (Lev 20:8). The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) is our righteousness (Jer 23:5, 6; 33:16). The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) will provide (Ge 22:14). The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) is our peace (Jdg 6:24). The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) will fulfill his purpose (Ro 9:29; Jas 5:4). The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) has headship over us. The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) is our banner (Ex 17:8–15). The Lord (not the Roman Catholic Church) is all-sufficient (Ex 6:3). You cannot earn or demand salvation. It is a gift of God (Eph 2:5,8; 2 Ti 1:9; Tit 2:11).] "One gigantic run-on Straw Man Fallacy."

Let the reader decide.

"You referred to Christ's command to love one's enemies as "a pious platitude.""

Strawman. I referred to your reference of Christ's command as a pious platitude. You need a savior (Acts 18:6; 2 Cor. 7:1; 11:3; Col. 1:22; 1 Tim. 1:5; 3:9; 2 Tim. 1:3; 2:21; Tit. 1:15; 2:14; Heb. 7:26; 9:14; 10:22; 2 Pet. 1:9).

"..."[Y]our un-Christian attitude toward Christ's command?"

Red Herring. "Do" that. Then, you'll get it (Acts 10:44; 19:2; Rom. 7:14; 8:27; 1 Cor. 2:11, 12, 14; 14:2; Col. 1:9; 1 John 4:2, 6; Rev. 2:7).

[ Strawman] "...[Y]ou have no idea what it actually means?"

Ad hominem.

"You simply have nothing worth bothering with."

We approach the Lord his way not our way (Jn 14:6). Your way (Jude 11) is unacceptable to the Lord. Your works are insufficient for salvation. Psa. 49:7, 8; Psa. 127:1, 2; Eccl. 1:14; Isa. 43:26; Isa. 57:12; Isa. 64:6; Ezek. 7:19; Ezek. 33:12–19; Dan. 9:18; Matt. 5:20; Luke 17:7–10; Luke 18:9–14; Acts 13:39; Rom. 3:20–31; Rom. 4:1–8 vs. 9–22.; Rom. 8:3; Rom. 9:16, 31, 32; Rom. 11:6; 1 Cor. 13:1–3; Gal. 2:16, 19, 21; Gal. 3:10–12, 21 vs. 1–29.; Gal. 4:9–11; Gal. 5:2, 4, 6, 18; Gal. 6:15; Eph. 2:8, 9; Phil. 3:3–9; Col. 2:20–23; 2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 3:4, 5; Heb. 4:3–10; Heb. 6:1, 2; Heb. 9:1–14; Jas. 2:10, 11.

[ Ad hominem] "Nor do you have any idea what this philosophical term means..."

Ad hominem.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "SerpentDove, Cruciform does not want to admit that he is a sinner."

My pastor likes to say: It's not enough to say 'you're right'. You must also say 'I was wrong'. Then, you agree with God. Eph 2:8-9.

Little Jack Horner
Sat in the corner,
Eating a Christmas pie;
He put in his thumb,
And pulled out a plum,
And said 'What a good boy am I!'

"Do-gooders--if they'd only do good." ~ J. Vernon McGee

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "If any of this is intended to apply to me, it's already been answered in Post #131."

If you are trying to win the Eukanuba dog show, requiring congregants to jump through hoops, you're doing great!. Mt 23:4. If you are trying to share the real Jesus, the true gospel, and what people must do to be saved (Jn 3:7), you fail. Cults and isms mix truth with error (Ga 5:9, 2 Thes 2:11).

"Roman Catholicism vs. historical, biblical Christianity: "We have different authorities, we believe different gospels, we worship different Christs, we are led by different spirits and we are on different paths to eternity. Compare this with the unity the apostle Paul described with those who are in one body and one ......Spirit, with one hope; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, on God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all (Eph 4:4-6)..."

See:

Roman Catholicism

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: [Bind heavy burdens Mt 23:4. Cults and 'isms mix truth with error (Ga 5:9, 2 Thes 2:11).] "Sure thing, whatever you say."

Truth is truth independent from me. Who cares what I say? What does God say? Do you like what God has to say? Prov 13:13.

[We have different authorities.] "...[O]urs has been held in the historic Church for two millennia...Protestantism's tens-of-thousands of contradictory and competing denominations and sects in existence today, with more popping up every week?"

God has always had a remnant (Rom. 11:5). Watch out for that pride (Pr 6:17). It's a doosie (Luke 7:36–50, 16:14, 15, John 3:1–10, 9:16, 22, Matt. 12:24–34, 15:1–9.

[We believe different gospels.] "...[Y]ours was concocted a mere five centuries ago..."

Men have always been saved the same way--by grace alone through faith alone Eph 2:5,8; 2Ti 1:9; Tit 2:11 in Christ alone Mr 16:16; Ac 16:31; Ro 10:9; Eph 2:8; 1Pe 1:5.

There is one gospel (Ro 11:6; Eph 2:9; 2Ti 1:9; Tit 3:5). Get yourself a savior. Then, your works will matter.

"Paul spoke about the root of faith (Eph 2:8). James spoke about the fruit of faith (Jm 2:17-18)." ~ Adrian Rogers

[We worship different christs] "In what way, specifically?"

"...Each Catholic priest is said to have the Spirit's power to call Jesus down from heaven through this miracle of transubstantiation. Thus Jesus becomes physically present on Catholic altars so that priests can offer Him again to the Father for the sins of the living and the dead. After the offering, God is eaten by Catholics when they ingest the Eucharist. Without question, the Roman Catholic Church regards Christ's real presence in the Eucharist a dogma of utmost importance. According to paragraph1324 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC)..." Full text: Pro-Gospel Ministries, Newsletter Vol. 16 No.

The Lord cannot be contained in a wafer (2 1 Ki 8:27).

“Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down from above emphasis added)." Ro 10:6, NKJV.

The Eucharist will not cleanse you of sin. Ever noticed that? Eze 36:29. We are saved by the blood of Christ (Heb. 9:22, 23). Dead works, and dead churches do not save (Heb. 9:13, 14, Jn 15:2-3). It is Jesus who cleanses us of sin (Jn 15:2-3, 1 John 1:7).

"What blaspheme to say that there is another sacrifice! Jesus suffered once for sin--the just for the unjust." ~ David Jeremiah

[Pr 13:13] "I simply don't like what you claim that God has to say."

Truth is truth independent from me.

[God has always had a remnant (Rom. 11:5).] "St. Paul is here referring to the Jewish people."

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace [Rom. 11:5].

"God always had a remnant in Israel. That remnant today is composed of those Jews who have come to Christ. This is the reason Paul will say later that all Israel is not Israel."

McGee, J. Vernon: Thru the Bible Commentary. electronic ed. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1981, S. 4:721

"Your fatal error is in relying upon militantly anti-Catholic sources..."

Mike Gendron was a Roman Catholic for 30 years. He is familiar with Roman Catholic teaching.

[The Lord cannot be contained in a host] "...[A]nd yet, he can be "contained" in the believer himself..."

[

Truth is truth independent from me.] "Then your opinions can simply be ignored."

Ad hominem. Ignore me all you'd like. Ignore scripture and you will be destroyed (Pr 13:13). "Every verse of the Bible means exactly what the author intended it to mean..." Full text: Hermeneutics: How to Interpret the Bible by Darrell Ferguson

[Mike Gendron was a Roman Catholic for 30 years. He is familiar with Roman Catholic teaching.] "This point has already been answered---and refuted---in previous posts."

Ad hominem. Mike Gendron has not misrepresented Roman Catholic teachings. Every tradition listed here is unbiblical.

[

Ad hominem.] "In what way, specifically, am I supposedly "attacking" you personally?"

When you say "...[Y]our opinions can simply be ignored..."

Again, I am not the issue. The issue is the issue.

Stick to

the issue at hand.

When you attack Mike Gendron, you fail to attack his argument. He has presented several truth claims (e.g. every tradition listed here is unbiblical). He is either right or he is wrong. You do not need to say that people who disagree with you are

"militantly anti-Catholic". It is possible to

understand Catholic theology and rightly disagree with it.

The Roman Catholic Church of 431 is not the Roman Catholic Church today. Your church is in it's final stages of apostasy (Rev. 3:14–22).

"Already answered---and refuted---in previous posts."

Truth is truth independent from me. My ideas are irrelevant. God's word is the final word.

"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please." ~ Mark Twain

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means." ~ Inigo Montoya

Ad hominem. Gendron was a Roman Catholic for 30 years.

He is familiar with their teachings.

[The Roman Catholic Church of 431 is not the Roman Catholic Church today.] "Of course not, any more than the acorn of the past is the oak tree..."

Appeal to tradition (Matt. 15:9, Mark 7:6-9 Col. 2:8).

You're no oak tree--or daisy.

"...[Y]our personal interpretations..."

Ad hominem. Truth is truth independent from me. "Every verse of the Bible means exactly what the author intended it to mean..." Full text: Hermeneutics: [URL="http://www.vananne.com/applesofgold/Hermeneutics%20How%20to%20Interpret%20the%20Bible.htm"]How to Interpret the Bible [/URL]by Darrell Ferguson

"Cain's basic sin was not just the murder of Abel. "And wherefore slew him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous" (1 Jn 3:12). "By Faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts" (Heb 11:4). Abel's work of sacrifice was judged righteous by God, and Cain's was not, because Cain "was of that wicked one" (1 Jn 3:12). He had refused to offer the blood of an acceptable sacrifice for his sins (and thus forfeited God's witness that he was righteous), instead offering the fruits of the cursed ground, produced by his own efforts. But then Abel's shed blood entered that ground, so even it could "not henceforth yield unto thee her strength" (Ge 4:12), and Cain became a wanderer.

Thus it will be in eternity for all those who refuse to come to God through the blood of the one acceptable Sacrifice, His own righteous Son. They shall "have no rest day or night" (Re 14:11), like "wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever" (Jude 13), "who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord" (2 Thess 1:9)." Days of Praise, 25 Oct 2009.

"From now on, I'm simply going to skip over and ignore any comments by you that have already been answered in my previous posts..."

"Jesus...cautioned: "Take heed what ye hear" (Mk 4:24). There are multitudes of false teachers today--evolutionary humanists, religious liberals, "New Age" mystics, and others--all very articulate and often winsome, but speaking false doctrine. "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak no according t this word, it is because there is no light in them" (Isa 8:20).

It is important not only to hear the right words, but also to hear the right way. "Take heed therefore how ye hear, "also said Jesus (Lk 8:18). Even if we hear the pure Word of God, it will accomplish nothing of value in our lives unless we hear with due reverence. "To this man will I look, even to him that...trembleth at my word" (Isa 66:2). And we must also hear with faith. "For unto us was the gospel preached, as well unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" (Heb 4:2). He that hath an ear, therefore, let him hear with reverent faith the true Word of God (Days of Praise, 7 Nov 2009)."

"...The Bible teaches us that "without shedding of blood is not remission" of sin (Heb 9:22), but also that "it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins" (Heb 10:4). Forgiveness is based on repentance, recognizing that one has offended God and turning from that sin. The very fact that blood sacrifices continued on a daily basis and by the high priest for the sins of all the people once a year, proves that those sacrifices were imperfect and insufficient. Moreover, since repentance was seldom a part of Israel's sacrifice, and even though the sacrifices continued, God judged the nation's sins by sending the people into captivity.

Thankfully, Christ acted to fulfill the law and eliminate the sacrificial system with the final sacrifice. "We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Heb 10:10). "There is no more offering for sin" (v. 18). He has assumed the office of High Priest, administered the final sacrifice, and made priests of all His followers. Just as the Old Testament priest, we have "boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus" (v. 19). We have no need for human intermediaries; we are believer-priests with a High Priest who has made it possible for us to come on His merits to the Father. Just as He gave certain authority to the Old Testament priests, He has given us this authority (Days of Praise, 14 Nov 2009)."

"Under ancient Jewish law, when an agreement was completed and the price paid, a seal was applied to the contract to make it definite and binding (Jer 32:9-10). The moment a person is reborn in the Spirit, he or she is sealed with the Spirit, and because he is the Seal, he cannot be broken. With this Seal, we are no longer our own. We now have the divine stamp upon us, which marks us as divine property until the day of final redemption (Ro 8:23)." MacGregor, Prays, pg. 73.

"As a witness, the Spirit's testimony is always in harmony with his own just and righteous nature. He witnesses in and to the believer in at least three ways: to our pardon, to our adoption, and to our sanctification (MacGregor, Prays, pg. 80)."

The indwelling Spirit is not only the evidence of our sonship, he is also the source of our holiness. Pardoned in court, we become children in the Father's house, and then holy ones serving in his temple. One reason why the Spirit is called holy is because it is his mission to empower us to live in holiness (2 Ti 1:14)." MacGregor, Prays, pg. 81.