Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "You are right about the lamp signifying
the church but wrong about the two olive trees they represent the state in the
form of Zerubbabel according to Zechariah 4."
Your apostate church
(Re
17:1) works to undermine the coming two witnesses.
These are the two olive trees, and the two
candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt
them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if
any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to
shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over
waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often
as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that
ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall
overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of
the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord
was crucified." The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition
of the 1900 Authorized Version.,
Re 11:4–8). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research
Systems, Inc.
...[Y]ou literalists missed it and the rapture of the
Church.
You're projecting again (Eph 4:14).
The watchmen have pointed you to the Re 12 sign to
be fulfilled on 23 Sept 17 (the Feast of Trumpets).
You're
not expecting his return (Re 3:3); therefore, you'll stay (Matt. 25:1-13).
A
new dispensation will begin.
Someone started the goofy claim Sept 23 is the
Revelation 12 sign, and you've been passing it along…
The rest of the timeline is
easier to plug in now that we know the rapture date coinciding with the Feast of
Trumpets. We’ll update our threads, we’re outta here and then you have no
additional Christian input. Find a bible. Don’t take the mark, and good luck.
Hope to catch you on the flippity flip.
I’ve watched the series. He’s in heaven. We’re still
here with work to do. He never commented to my knowledge about the Re 12 sign.
He did have some antichrists around him to tried to claim that is was
meaningless.
Weltner suggests that Daniel’s 70th week has already
begun FOT 2017. She agrees that no seal is opened until we’re gone. She still
holds to pre-trib.
Think we are bearing witness eh? We are, till the end.
Neither you nor I are one of the two witnesses spoken about in Re 11. They
are perhaps: Moses/Elijah or Moses/Enoch or in the spirit of.
SECTION OUTLINE ELEVEN (REVELATION 11) John sees the two witnesses of God carrying out their 1,260-day ministry
before being murdered by the Antichrist. The seventh trumpet is blown.
I. THE TEMPLE OF GOD (11:1–2) A. The command (11:1a): John is told to measure the Tribulation Temple. B. The count (11:1b): He is to number the worshipers. C. The court (11:2a): He is to exclude the outer court, which has been
given to the Gentiles. D. The contempt (11:2b): The Gentiles will trample the Holy City for
forty-two months.
II. THE TWO WITNESSES OF GOD (11:3–14) A. The ministry of these two witnesses (11:3–6) 1. The duration of their ministry (11:3) : They will prophesy for 1,260
days. 2. The dedication of their ministry (11:4) : They function as God’s two
olive trees and lampstands. 3. The devastation caused by their ministry (11:5–6) a. They devour their enemies by supernatural fire (11:5) . b. They cause a three-and-one-half-year drought (11:6a). c. They turn waters into blood (11:6b). d. They strike the earth with plagues (11:6c). B. The martyrdom of the two witnesses (11:7–10) 1. The corrupt one causing their deaths (11:7–9) a. Who he is (11:7a): He is the Antichrist himself. b. Where he comes from (11:7b): The bottomless pit. c. What he does (11:9b): He refuses to permit anyone to bury the
witnesses’ bodies. d. Where he does it (11:8) : They lie in the streets of Jerusalem. e. Why he does it (11:9a): To show his utter contempt for the two
witnesses. 2. The celebration following their deaths (11:10) : The entire world
rejoices over their deaths. C. The metamorphosis of the two witnesses (11:11–14) 1. Resurrection (11:11–12): They are raptured up into heaven. 2. Destruction (11:13–14): An earthquake destroys one-tenth of Jerusalem,
leaving seven thousand dead. Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Re
11). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.
"...When the Lord takes His church out of the world,
the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven. There will be no angels. Angels are
connected with Israel but not with the church at all. He will descend from
heaven “with a shout.” That is the voice of command. It is the same voice which
He used when He stood at the tomb of Lazarus and said, “Lazarus, come forth”
(see John
11:43). “The voice of the archangel.” Now wait, isn’t that an angel
connected with the Rapture? No, it is His voice that will be like the voice of
an archangel. It is the quality of His voice, the majesty and the authority of
it. “The trump of God.” Will there be trumpets there? No, it is His voice that
will be like a trumpet. Can we be sure of this? In Revelation
1:10, John, who was exiled to the Isle of Patmos, wrote, “I was in the
Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet.”
He turned to see who it was, and he saw the glorified Christ. It is the voice of
the glorified Christ that is like the sound of a trumpet. That ought to get rid
of all this foolishness about Gabriel blowing his horn or blowing a trumpet. I
don’t think Gabriel even owns a trumpet, but if he has one, he won’t need to
blow it. The Lord Jesus is not going to need the help of Gabriel. Do you think
the Lord Jesus needed Gabriel to come and help Him raise Lazarus from the dead?
Can you imagine the Lord Jesus at the tomb of Lazarus saying, “Gabriel, won’t
you come over here and help Me get this man out of the grave?” How absolutely
foolish! The Lord Jesus will not need anyone to help Him. When He calls His
church, their bodies will come up out of the graves." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru
the Bible commentary: The Epistles (1 and 2 Thessalonians) (electronic ed., Vol.
49, pp. 80–81). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
Clarke believes that the rapture must be on the FOT (1 Cor.
15:52).I think he’s wrong about that...
...[T]he clock for the final seven wont start until the treaty
is signed.
The deal is done. The Antichrist enforces it.
“1396 גָּבַר [gabar /gaw·bar/] v. A primitive root; TWOT 310; GK 1504; 25
occurrences; AV translates as “prevail” 14 times, “strengthen” three times,
“great” twice, “confirm” once, “exceeded” once, “mighty” once, “put” once,
“stronger” once, and “valiant” once. 1 to prevail, have strength, be strong, be
powerful, be mighty, be great. 1A (Qal). 1A1 to be strong, mighty. 1A2 to
prevail. 1B (Piel) to make strong, strengthen. 1C (Hiphil). 1C1 to confirm, give
strength. 1C2 to confirm (a covenant). 1D (Hithpael). 1D1 to show oneself
mighty. 1D2 to act proudly (toward God).” Strong, J. (1995). Enhanced Strong’s
Lexicon. Woodside Bible Fellowship.
...The Two witnesses are something separate. Once they are here,
Christians will have been raptured (if ready)...
We may see some the ‘travails’ for Israel prior to leaving...
Chuck Missler died just this month.
Right. I had hoped that he would comment on Re 12 sign prior to his death. He
never did. He sent antichrists out there to speak for him. I don’t know that he
would have approved of their message...
… We shall see! ‘No one knows the date or the hour’.
A lot of work occurred in heaven and on earth after that statement.
…The treaty will start the clock ticking on the seven years.
Maybe. Maybe it’s already been agreed upon; but, the public has not been told
yet.
‘[N]o one knows the date or hour’ and you say that a lot has
happened in heaven since that was said ...
That’s correct. The Lord was not lying when he made that statement. After that
time, he died and rose again. He and God, the Father had additional
conversations. The Lord happened to reveal more to his friend, John.
We call it the Book of Revelation.
…the Bible and more
importantly the Word of God never changes.
Does it continue to reveal something to you as you re-read
it? Ro 8:14, He 4:12
If you say that... then it calls
into question all that God said…
Questions don't bother God. He's got broad shoulders. He can take it.
...[S]o frankly this calls into
question what you are saying for me.
“Specifics Bob.” ~ Bob, Phenomenon Ac 17:11
I’ll pray for you brother.
If you’re a Christian, that might matter (Pr 15:29).
Your name Serpentdove. This says a
lot maybe.
More
study. Less ad hominem (Eph 4:14).
A few housekeeping items:
When you quote another member, it is helpful to use the quote button.
(Re
17:1) works to undermine the coming two witnesses.
You're projecting again (Eph 4:14).
You're
not expecting his return (Re 3:3); therefore, you'll stay (Matt. 25:1-13).
A
new dispensation will begin.
2 Ti 4:8, Re 3:3
we’re in business. 
until I see: fire (Re 11:5) 
lately? 
