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Lordship Salvation: perverting the gospel of Christ

Derf

In your OP, you seem to be focusing on the idea that people are saying that we need to "do" something to be saved.

All one can do is believe (Eph 2:8-9).
But there are very few examples of people coming to Christ in the bible where they didn't do something. For instance, the thief on the cross didn't just say "remember me", but he also rebuked his fellow thief with the words, "We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." In that episode, the thief rightly recognized his own faults, rightly confessed them, and rightly repented of them. Then he asked Jesus to "remember me when you come into your kingdom." (Luke 23:40-42).

He believed, yes.

Another example, Zacchaeus, when Jesus came to his house, acknowledged his need to follow the law by offering "Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore [him] fourfold. [Luk 19:8-9 KJV]" Jesus' response? "Today salvation has come to your house".

Zacchaeus' actions proved he had been converted (Lk 19:1-10).

Further, when Peter preached to the Jews at Pentecost, his command when asked by the people what they should do was "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [Act 2:38 KJV]"

That is the message we continue to preach today (Lk 24:47).

"You cannot have a 'come in Savior' and a 'stay out Lord'." Ro 14:9 ~ Adrian Rogers

And Paul, when he was heading to Jerusalem to be bound, as prophesied, reminded those from Ephesus, "[And] how I kept back nothing that was profitable [unto you], but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house, testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. [Act 20:20-21 KJV]"

Repentance is required. They can call him Lord, Lord all day long. If they have not turned (Ac 9:35), repented (Ac 8:22), returned (1 Sam. 7:3), been converted (Ac 15:3), they are as we say in hockey all say no play (Mt 7:20).

When Jesus preached in the countryside or in the city, his message was either "repent" or "repent and believe". The first was more common, and it was often coupled with "for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"

He'll be Lord of all or he won't be Lord at all (Mk 12:30). Yeppers.

The addition of "Lord" is not superfluous, is it? To some it may be (Matt 7:21). But isn't that what Jesus requires (Lu 6:46) of us--not to just call Him "Lord", but to do what He says, which is the same as "making Him Lord", isn't it? It is a recognition of His position and submission to His lordship. We don't make Him Lord of all, but when we agree that we have sinned and repent, then we recognize Him as Lord; we submit to Him as Lord. And in that way, we do "make Him Lord of our lives".

Don't know what they're teaching (Jer 8:8).

I think you do injustice to the gospel of Christ when you complain about His servants that call people to make Jesus Lord of their lives.

Honey badger theology (Eph 4:14).

I'll do what I want aka easy believism (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10).

Can one believe without making Him Lord? Is it really believing if you don't believe that He is Lord, meaning you are willing (though not necessarily able) to always do what He says to do?

Call him

vending machine,

vending machine (Lk 6:46).

See:

What is lordship salvation?

Related:

Has the Law has been done away with?
At patrick jane At john w At Nick At SaultoPaul At Musterion At heir At GloryDaz At exminister At Grosnick Marowbe
Must We Confess Every Sin?
Give Your Life to Jesus
How Many on TOL are Grace Gospel Believers?
Where is Prince Now?
Kirk Cameron: Wives Should 'Honor and Respect and Follow Their Husband's Lead'
The Myth of Unmerited Favor and Grace
The Big Switch
Did Paul teach obedience?
Where Is Muhammad Ali Now?

heir

What is it one need to hear to be saved? That they need to make Jesus Christ the Lord of their life? No! That they need to repent? No!

God does not forgive men prior to repentance on their part (Ac 2:38).

Cross Reference

Ah, Yes. Just believe and that does it! Question: Should there be any evidence that reveals or testifies to one's new found "believing"?
There will be evidence (Lk 1:77, Mt 7:20).

As a reminder Cross Reference is number 7 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in the Misc. category.

heir

Galatians 1:8-9 KJV

You're projecting again (Ga 1:8-9, Eph 4:14).

Derf

What exactly is "the road to repentance"?

A road they never travel (Jn 3:19). Their threads usually start with: how much can I sin and still make it to heaven? Rom. 3:25, 26

Derf

I hate to start a firestorm and then walk away, but I'll be away from TOL for the rest of the day.

Don't worry about us. We, the bride,

will be working on our face (Mal 4:5, Mt 24:14).

Classic Jack Burton Big Trouble Little China

heir

Paul never preached Acts 2:38 KJV. You're preaching another gospel unto us...let you be accursed. Galatians 1:8-9 KJV

You're projecting again (Ga 1:8-9).

As we do not forgive men prior to their repentance (Lk 17:3), God does not forgive us prior to repentance (Ac 2:38).

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost [Acts 2:38].

"This is for a people who had the Word of God, who had heard the message, who knew the prophecies. They had been going along in one direction, which was away from God, even though they had a God–given religion. They are told to repent. They are to turn around and come God’s way.

Peter says to them, “Repent, and be baptized.” Water baptism would be the evidence that they had repented, that they had come to Christ and had put their trust in Him.

Peter says to them, “Be baptized … in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. This will be an evidence that you have trusted Him for the remission of your sins—rather than bringing a sacrifice to be offered in the temple.” You see, their baptism would be a testimony to the fact that Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

“And ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” Anyone who believes, who puts his trust in Jesus Christ, will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: Church History (Acts 1-14) (electronic ed., Vol. 40, p. 39). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"Ac 2:38. Repent—The word denotes change of mind, and here includes the reception of the Gospel as the proper issue of that revolution of mind which they were then undergoing.

baptized … for the remission of sins—as the visible seal of that remission." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 176). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"Ac 2::38 Repent. This refers to a change of mind and purpose that turns an individual from sin to God (1 Thess. 1:9). Such change involves more than fearing the consequences of God’s judgment. Genuine repentance knows that the evil of sin must be forsaken and the person and work of Christ totally and singularly embraced. Peter exhorted his hearers to repent, otherwise they would not experience true conversion (see note on Matt. 3:2; cf. 3:19; 5:31; 8:22; 11:18; 17:30; 20:21; 26:20; Matt. 4:17)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1637). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

heir

[2 Co 5:19]
A change is required.

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imPutin g their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation [2 Cor. 5:19].

"Reconciliation is the ministry of changing completely. But who is changing completely? God is never changing—He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. It says that God has reconciled us to Himself. “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself.” It is the world that has been reconciled. God has reconciled the world. As we look at the world, we can see that it is going on its sinful way. “We have turned everyone to his own way” (see Isa. 53:6). But it is through Christ that the world is reconciled to God, through the death of Christ. This marvelous ministry of reconciliation is the work that Christ has done.

Let me call in another passage of Scripture concerning this. “And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight” (Col. 1:20–22). Compare this with Philippians 2:10 in which it says that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth—“under the earth” refers to hell. I want you to notice in the passage in Colossians, when it is speaking of reconciliation, only heaven and earth are mentioned. Hell is not reconciled to God. Although every being in hell will bow to Him, only those in heaven and earth are reconciled. In what way are they reconciled? “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight” (Col. 1:21–22). The death of Christ is what reconciled the world to God.

Notice that God is not reconciled—He has not changed. But the world has been put in a different position. Why? Because Christ died. You see, when Adam sinned back there in the Garden of Eden, a holy God couldn’t reach down and save him. God had to do something about his sin. God had to judge man. “The soul that sinneth, it shall die …” (Ezek. 18:20). God had told Adam, “… for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die” (Gen. 2:17). Adam did die spiritually on that very day, and nine hundred years later he also died physically. When he died spiritually, he became alienated and separated from God; and he had no capacity for God. That is the condition of the world, and God had to judge that.

Now that Christ has died, the position of the world has been changed. Today God has His arms outstretched to a lost world. He says to a lost world, “You can come to Me.” The worst sinner in the world can come to Him. Today it doesn’t make any difference who you are, you can come to Him. Because Christ died, a holy God no longer deals with us in judgment, but now He reaches down to save all those who will come to Him. Jesus Christ bore all that judgment on Himself so that now the world is reconciled to God. You don’t have to do anything to win God over. God is not waiting around the corner to hit you over the head with a billy club. God is not angry with you. God does not hate you. God loves you. Christ did not come to charge man’s sins against him but to pay man’s debt.

The woman taken in adultery is an illustration of this (see John 8:1–11). The Lord Jesus said to that crowd of hypocritical religious leaders, “… He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” Then Jesus wrote something in the sand, wrote something on the earth. It is interesting that in Jeremiah 17:13 it says, “… they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.”

It tells us that they left—beginning with the old Pharisees and then down to the younger ones. The older ones had more sense than the young fellows who hung around a little longer. I think probably one of the old fellows had had an affair with a woman over in Corinth. He thought nobody knew about it, but of course the Lord knew all about it. Perhaps Jesus just wrote down the name of that girl, and when the old Pharisee looked down and saw that name written on the ground, he said, “I just remembered I have another engagement,” and he tore out of there in a hurry. Before long they were all gone except one—only Jesus Christ was left. The only One who could have thrown a stone at her did not throw a stone. He asked, “Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more” (John 8:10–11). “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imPutin

g their trespasses unto them.” Jesus was not shutting His eyes to her sin, but for all that sin He was going to the Cross. The condemnation was to fall on Him, and because she trusted Him, He could send her away uncondemned." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (2 Corinthians) (electronic ed., Vol. 45, pp. 70–72). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"...[T]he debt was paid in full Romans 4:25 KJV, Romans 6:23 KJV whether or not someone believes it.."

Men must believe (Ac 5:14; 1 Ti 4:12). "Believe in the original language means "to be convinced"..." Full text: Armor of the Lord

See:

What is easy believism?

Is universalism / universal salvation biblical?

What is the emerging / emergent church movement?

john w

[Genuine repentance knows that the evil of sin must be forsaken] ...[A]nother perverter of the good news is exposed....Thanks for your subjective "good news."
If you've not been seeking God, he's going to cut you off (Zeph 1:6). Still playing church?

heir

Ssssnake Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV

Who are you trying to convince? You or me? Lk 12:35

john w

["...Genuine repentance knows that the evil of sin must be forsaken and the person and work of Christ totally and singularly embraced. ~ John MacArthur] Tell all of TOL, just how "genuine" you are, with specifics, and tell us the sins for which the Lord Jesus Christ did not die, the ones for which you must "forsake."

Forsake sin? You have forsaken all of your sin/sins? I haven't...
Holding on to them like grim death?

Jn 3:19, 8:34

Johnny One Note ~ Judy Garland

heir

You are a snake 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 KJV

You said that (Eph 4:14).

I need to put my hip waders on to get through the MUD on this website.

You could wash up and go to the Father's house.

See:

The Prodigal Pig by J. Vernon McGee

john w

Cut off members, of His own body...?
2 Co 13:5

See:

Abide in Him

heir

How sad that people aren't being told that God forgave them 2000 years ago by the faith...

Whose faith? You weren't born 2000 years ago.

You are saved when you believe (Eph 2:8-9, Ac 17:26-27).

See:

Is God Outside of Time? Not according to the Bible by Bob Enyart

john w

[Holding on to that sin?

Jn 3:19, 8:34] That's it?

Is that a 'yes'?

[Abide in Him] You, the castrator...

God decides if you're the real deal (Eph 4:21).

See:

Can a person live like the devil and still be saved?

heir

"...forgiveness has already happened for us...(Ephesians 4:32 KJV, Colossians 2:13 KJV)...Take a load off."

Repent

take a load off Ac 2:38, Lk 24:47

Do not grieve the Holy Spirit (Eph 4:25-32). Get right on that.

"Eph 4:31, 32 These verses summarize the changes in the life of a believer mentioned in vv. 17–30. “Bitterness” reflects a smoldering resentment. “Wrath” has to do with rage, the passion of a moment. “Anger” is a more internal, deep hostility. “Clamor” is the outcry of strife out of control. “Evil speaking” is slander. “Malice” is the general Gr. term for evil, the root of all vices." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1811). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

Time to change your dirty diapers (Re 22:14).

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses [Col. 2:13].

"Salvation is not the improvement of the old nature; it is the impartation of a new nature.

Remember that Paul had to deal with two systems of Greek philosophy which were very popular in his day. They were diametrically opposed to each other, but they both came out at the same end of the horn. One philosophy was Stoicism, and the other was Epicureanism.

The Stoic taught that man was to live nobly and that death could not matter. The idea was to hold the appetites in cheek and to become indifferent to changing conditions. In effect they said, “Be not uplifted by good fortune nor cast down by adversity.” They believed that man is more than circumstances and that the soul is greater than the universe. It was a brave philosophy, you see. But the problem was how to live it. It was like the people who say that they are living by the Sermon on the Mount when actually they are many miles from it.

The Epicurean taught that all is uncertain. “We know not whence we came; we know not whither we go. We only know that after a brief life we disappear from this scene, and it is vain to deny ourselves any present joy in view of the possible future ill. Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

The interesting thing to observe is that both these systems attempted to deal with the flesh—that is, the old nature that you and I have—not the meat on our bones. The old nature works through our old habits, old desires, old testings and temptations. How are we going to bring that under control?

There are all kinds of gimmicks and systems that are set before us today to enable us to live the Christian life. I know people who have been to Bible conferences where the Christian life is taught, and at home they have a drawer filled with notebooks. But they are not doing so well in living the Christian life. Why not? Because we need to recognize this one important thing that Paul is saying here: we are joined to the living Christ. Now, if you are joined to Him, my friend, you are going to live as if you are. How close are you to Him? Do you walk with Him? Do you turn to Him in all the emergencies of this life? Is He the One who is the very center of your life?

As Paul turns now to the error of legality, we will again find that the answer is to come to the Word of God and through it to come into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

A glory gilds the sacred page,
Majestic like the sun.
It sheds a light on every age;
It gives but borrows none." McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed., Vol. 5, pp. 350–351). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"Col 2:13 dead in your trespasses. See notes on Eph. 2:1, 5. So bound in the sphere of sin, the world (Eph. 2:12), the flesh (Rom. 8:8), and the devil (1 John 5:19) as to be unable to respond to spiritual stimuli; totally devoid of spiritual life. Paul further defines this condition of the unsaved in 1 Cor. 2:14; Eph. 4:17–19; Titus 3:3. He has made alive together with Him. See notes on Eph. 2:1, 5. Only through union with Jesus Christ (vv. 10–12) can those hopelessly dead in their sins receive eternal life (cf. Eph. 2:5). Note that God takes the initiative and exerts the life-giving power to awaken and unite sinners with His Son; the spiritually dead have no ability to make themselves alive (cf. Rom. 4:17; 2 Cor. 1:9)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1835). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

"Col 2:10 — … and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

Since “all the fullness of the Godhead” dwells in Jesus, and Jesus dwells in you through the Spirit, then it only makes sense that in Him you are complete. What could be lacking in “all the fullness of the Godhead”?" Stanley, C. F. (2005). The Charles F. Stanley life principles Bible: New King James Version (Col 2:10). Nashville, TN: Nelson Bibles.

heir

[Is God Outside of Time? Not according to the Bible by Bob Enyart] "Quoting men who don't even believe they have a the bible won't get you anywhere with me."

Bob Enyart is a fine servant of the Lord (Eph 4:14).

1 Ti 1:6-7

john w

Translated: clueless as to the meaning of repentance.

Did that

change of mind happen to include a change of behavior?

Mt 7:20

heir

Ssserpent is a walking billboard for mud.

You're projecting again (Eph 4:14).

See:

The Prodigal Pig 2 Pe 2:21-22 by J. Vernon McGee

heir

Just look at most of his/her posts. They are never all his/hers, but of the spoiled (Colossians 2:8 KJV).

Not philosophy but Christ (Colossians 2:1-10). Get right on that.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ [Col. 2:8].

"“Beware”—Look out! Stop, look, and listen!

“Lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit.” If you were to follow the history of philosophy beginning with Plato, including many of the church fathers, and coming down to more recent times (including Kant, Locke, and Bultmann, who seems to be the craze with some theologians right now), you would find that none of them have a high view of the inspiration of the Word of God. They are looking for answers to the problems of life, but they will not be found in philosophy.

A true philosopher is a seeker after truth, but truth is not found in human wisdom. Christ is the answer, the answer to philosophy. Paul wrote, “But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom …” (1 Cor. 1:30, italics mine). But false philosophy is like a blind man looking in a dark room for a black cat that isn’t there—there is no hope for its search for truth. Paul warns the Colossians to beware of this.

“After the tradition of men.” You may remember that the Lord Jesus condemned the religious rulers in His day because they taught the tradition of men rather than the Word of God. Very frankly, this is one of the reasons I have turned to the teaching of the total Word of God. It is so easy to lift out some peculiar interpretation of some particular passage and then ride that like a hobby horse. I believe in prophecy, but there is more in the Word of God than just prophecy. Some preachers dwell on the Christian life. That certainly is in the Bible, but there is more than just that. This is why I think it is so important for us to study the total Word of God.

“After the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” The Greek word for “rudiments” is stoicheion, which means “that which is basic,” the ABC’s. Some people try to build their Christian living on some worldly system that seems so simple. Our base is not philosophy or a worldly system; our base is Christ..." McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed., Vol. 5, pp. 349–350). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Right Divider

[Enyart] That does not mean that everything that he says is correct.

I don't agree with him on all things.

john w

[Lovin' that sin?

Jn 3:19, 8:34

] "Is that a punt?"
Is that an answer?

["...Genuine repentance knows that the evil of sin must be forsaken and the person and work of Christ totally and singularly embraced. ~ John MacArthur] "...the castrator"

John MacArthur is a fine servant of the Lord (Eph 4:14).

heir

Yes, and I will say it again, sssnake. Using Peter against a member of the Body of Christ doesn't work.

I don't know that you are in the body of Christ (Gal. 2:3-4).

Mr. McGee is/was a wrong divider at best.

J. Vernon McGee was a fine servant of the Lord (Eph 4:14).

john w

[Still snugglin' up with that sin?

Jn 3:19, 8:34 ] Not a peep.

Not an answer (Eph 4:14).

john w

[John MacArthur] [Wolf sheep's clothing] Here is Mac's recent pic...

2 Ti 3:3, KJV

God's Truth

Did you put Heir and John W. on your heretic list...

Choleric started Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list).

I have

added to the list.

God's Truth

"Serpent dove has been exposed...when his beliefs are strongly debated by a certain class of people here, serpent is too afraid to mention that heretic list."

I've mentioned Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list).

Eph 4:14

"Cowards and hypocrites are not the Way."

Your way (2 Pe 2:1)

is not the way (Jn 14:6).

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

john w

[Runnin' to sin?

Jn 3:19, 8:34

] "Silencio, from wolfie."

1 Jn 1:8

Poor Johnny One Note

~ Judy Garland

[Adoring sin?

Jn 3:19, 8:34

] What sin/sins?

1 Jn 1:9

is written to the church.

See:

Struggle of a Saved Soul by J. Vernon McGee

"...wimp...you little punk...demon, and closet Roman Catholic."

Ad hominem (Eph 4:14).

patrick jane

Acts 13:10 KJV

"Ac 13:10. full of all subtlety—referring to his magic arts.

and all malice—The word signifies “readiness for anything,” knavish dexterity.

thou child of the devil … enemy of all righteousness—These were not words of passion, for immediately before uttering them, it is said he was “filled with the Holy Ghost” [Chrysostom].

wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord—referring to his having to that hour made a trade of leading his fellow creatures astray." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, pp. 190–191). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

musterion

"Good news"?! John, John, John. Now if people went around preaching and believing that good news, what need would they have to keep paid ministerial staff on hand 24 hours a day, just a phone call away? Who'd pay into the building fund? Who'll sign up for the sanctuary vacuuming and lawn mowing rotation? Who'd handle the bus ministry? Who buys the new drumkit for the P&W band? Who'll order the VBS curriculum? Who'll get the coffee and donuts for Sunday school? Who'll scrub the baptismal tank with Comet? Who'll keep the baptism numbers up? Who would tithe, John W? You?

If we preach your good news, the kingdom of God falls to Satan and the parking lot won't get re-graveled! Do you want the kingdom of God to fall to Satan, John W? Do you want to drive on bumpy gravel? I thought not.

- Saying what lots of professional ministers will never say aloud, but think every day."

Heb 10:25, 2 Co 9:7

heir

...not your religious, denominational ball and chain.

Eph 2:8-9

john w

[Lovin' sin?

Jn 3:19, 8:34

] What sin/sins?

Been listening to Bob George

on the radio again?

See:

What is antinomianism? What are antinomians? If Christians are not under the Old Testament Law, what is to stop Christians from living however...

What is free grace? What is Free Grace Theology? Is free grace the opposite of lordship salvation?

Danoh

[Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list)

] Again, I'll have to beg to differ with you as to this warning of who is on what list. I find I am able to learn from one and all where that aspect of what they assert is sound...

This list was created for those who identify here as

Christian. With the new software upgrade, religious affiliation is not given so I don't know that anyone else will be added.

God's Truth

[Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list)

] I do not agree with you on many things, but I do think you are right in correcting Serpent.

All you have to do is sock puppet your name out of here and you're good to go.

...Now I have to tell antichrists how to do their job? 2 Pe 2:1

God's Truth

You are promoting slander against me. Show where I have said Jesus is not God.

You are quoted in the thread.

This thread is not about your modalism (Eph 5:11, 2 Pe 2:1).

God's Truth

Are you calling John W. and heir antichrists?

I'm supposed to discuss with an antichrist (2 Pe 2:1) who should be added to Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list)?

God's Truth

[Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list)

] Why are you giving a link to that thread?...Since this thread is not about the trinity doctrine, why then do you keep bringing it up in defense for getting attacked?"

I haven't brought up the trinity (Eph 4:14).

The category is "Jesus is not God" (2 Pe 2:1) which includes those who reject the trinity (Gen. 1:1–3, 26, Is. 40:13; Is. 48:16).

Danoh

[Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list)

] ...It's best you neither allow yourself such a list's too often one sided ...

His list exposes antichrists (Eph 5:11). It's a good thing.

heir

[Ac 2:38, Lk 24:47] That's neither the gospel of mine or your salvation.

You aren't forgiven until you repent (Ac 2:38, Lk 24:47).

[Bob Enyart is a fine servant of the Lord (Eph 4:14).] Nah, he doesn't preach the gospel of Christ as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. I don't see how that could be a good thing.

1 Ti 1:6-7

...[T]hat's not me.

O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken (Lk 24:25A, emphasis mine).

[J. Vernon McGee was a fine servant of the Lord (Eph 4:14).] Says who?

2 Pe 2:2-3

heir

[Galatians 2:9]

And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision [Gal. 2:9].

"The apostles accepted Paul’s apostleship. “The right hands of fellowship”—fellowship is the Greek koinonia, one of the great words of the gospel and the highest expression of a personal relationship. It means sharing the things of Christ." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (Galatians) (electronic ed., Vol. 46, p. 31). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

This is fun!

1 Ti 6:3–5
The point that stands: Galatians 2:9...

It does. Jud 7-8

[Rebuke] ...[N]ot me.

Col 2:3-4

Liar! I was forgiven all trespasses (Colossians 2:13 KJV)...

Better check that out. Get that caught on a trip wire. 2 Co 13:5

Right Divider

You spend far too much time reading what other people think about what the Bible teaches...

I'm here to learn (2 Ti 2:15 KJV).

You already know it all.

God's Truth

We must actually obey Jesus to get saved, and to stay saved.

You can't obey Jesus. You come as you are and then he changes you (1 Pet. 1:2).

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

Right Divider

You are a false accuser and completely confused. You mash things together and constantly quote out of context. Please address what I said about Galatians...

Why would you like me to address Galatians if I am a false accuser who is completely confused? Eph 4:14

Danoh

Who's next - Benny Hinn?
Benny Hinn is a false teacher (2 Pe 2:1).
[1 Jn 1:9] ...Were John and Paul in disagreement?

We are called to holiness (1 Thess. 4:7).

"Not all the Bible is directed to us, but all the Bible is for us." ~ J. Vernon McGee 2 Ti 3:16

God's Truth

Just so everyone knows, Serpent is a follower of Calvin...

I reject Calvinism (Eph 4:14).

See:

Predestination and Will: How are predestination and election connected with foreknowledge?

Does God Elect Everyone?

...You believe no one can obey without God making one obey. That is a false teaching from Luther and Calvin, as they were taught by Augustine.

I reject the teachings of Luther, Calvin and Augustine.

You've never done

a good thing (Ro 3:12). You are not saved (2 Pe 2:1).

God's Truth

Are you calling John W. and heir Antichrists?

Are they teaching justification without repentance? Acts 9:1–20

My pastor has a saying come as you are--leave forever changed.

Cross Reference

Really?! How does that happen? Can I buy one?

Sold your soul?

Pr 23:23

As a reminder Cross Reference is number 7 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in Misc. category.

...You must be a Baptist.

I'm not a Baptist (Eph 4:14).

God's Truth

...I was calling Serpentdove out on his/her cowardly act of calling me a heretic but not calling heir and John W. a heretic, even though they call him one...
Can I guarantee that they have passed from death to life? No, I cannot (Acts 11:18).

Are you calling them a heretic[s] or not?

I don't consult with antichrists (2 Pe 2:1, Pr 26:21) when considering whether or not to submit member's names to

Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list).

They say you are one, and I will agree with them on that.

Bandwagon (Eph 4:14).

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

...No use asking someone something if they have no problem with being deceitful.

You're projecting again (Eph 4:14).

You misquoted me.

Cross Reference

[Baptists] ...My intent was not to impugn them. If we are married to Christ (Rom. 8:11), we should call ourselves Christian not be identified by some denomination.

God's Truth

[Ro 8:11 Married to Christ not denominations

] [A]ll Serpent is doing is denying his teachers, whom he follows.

Ad hominem Eph 4:14

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

heir

How sad that people aren't being told that God forgave them 2000 years ago by the faith...

Whose faith? You weren't born 2000 years ago.

You are saved when you believe (Eph 2:8-9, Ac 17:26-27).

See:

Is God Outside of Time? Not according to the Bible by Bob Enyart

Nah, he doesn't preach the gospel of Christ as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. I don't see how that could be a good thing.

1 Ti 1:6-7

Yep, but that's not me!

O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken (Lk 24:25A, emphasis mine).

heir

That's not me either.
Repentance is required for conversion (Acts 26:20).

john w

[Lordship]

"If you have a talking faith that is not a walking faith, you have a mocking faith." ~ Jim Andrews 1 Jn 2:6

Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

[2 Co 13:5 See: Abide in Him] "Wrong..."

Judas was sad (Mt 27:5).

It didn't mean he had saving faith. 2 Co 7:10

heir

[Saved] I am. Are you?

If your life has not been reformed (Joe 2:13, Is 61:10, 2 Co 5:17), you're not the real deal (Mt 3:8).

john w

The wolves suggest/assert that the above is Paul's warning, to check to see if you are saved.

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? [2 Cor. 13:5].

"This has nothing to do with free will or election or the security of the believer. Paul says we should examine ourselves to see whether we are in the faith or not. We should be willing to face up to this issue. I think two or three times a year we should do this.

When my daughter was just a little thing, she made a confession of her faith to her mother when they were back visiting her grandmother in Texas. She came in one day and said out of a clear sky that she wanted to accept Jesus as her Savior. My wife took her into the bedroom, she got down on her knees and accepted Christ. Regularly after that I would ask her about her relation to Christ. When she got into her teens, she asked, “Daddy, why do you keep asking me whether I am a Christian or not or whether I really trust in Jesus?” I told her, “I just want to make sure. After all, you are my offspring and I want to be sure.” Now not only did I do that for her, I did it for myself also. I think every believer ought to do that." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (2 Corinthians) (electronic ed., Vol. 45, p. 149). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
Already addressed...Take your seat, closet Roman Catholic.

I reject

Roman Catholicism (Re 17:5).

See:

The Almost Christian by George Whitefield

"No, you don't. You are a closet Roman. My evidence? You talk like them. They talk like you. I have marked/exposed/identified you, "outed you," Roman."

I reject

Roman Catholicism (Jud 11

See:

The Almost Christian by John Wesley

heir

[You aren't forgiven until you repent (Ac 2:38, Lk 24:47).] Nope. We were forgiven all trespasses when we were quickened together with Him.
If someone invites you to dinner at 7:00 pm and you show up at 8:00 pm, do you apologize? Or, do you say you've already forgiven me, let's eat?

If you sin against God, you confess it (Ps 51:4). That is what we call a healthy relationship (1 Jn 1:9, Mt 7:23).

God's Truth

God calls everyone, but not everyone answers the call.
That's right. He is Lord and Savior (Ac 5:29).

2 Tim. 2:20, 21, 1 Thess. 4:4, Jn 17:21

See:

Do You See Your Calling? By Oswald Chambers

Just look at all the attacks I am getting, and all because I say we are to obey what Jesus says...

Ga 5:9, Eph 4:14, 2 Pe 2:1, 1 Pe 4:15

john w

[Lordship]

Jn 3:36 ESV

Right Divider

[Jn 3:36 ESV] You are definitely the post child for confusing the scriptures and taking them out of context.

How have I taken Jn 3:36 ESV out of context?

Right Divider

You didn't.

I didn't (Eph 4:14).

Put Jn 3:36 ESV in your pipe and smoke it.

Rom 15:8

"2. He points to the Savior (15:3, 8–12).
a. Jesus came not to gratify himself but to give himself (15:3) .
b. Jesus came to guarantee God’s salvation to Jews and Gentiles (15:8–12).
(1) To the Jews (15:8) : He came to show that God keeps his promises to the Jews.
(2) To the Gentiles (15:9–12): See also Deuteronomy 32:43; Psalm 18:49; and Isaiah 11:10." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Ro 15:4–12). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

You put a lot of weight on the commentaries of yours.

I'm here to learn. You already know it all (Eph 4:14).

God's Truth

Who cares about Oswald Chambers?

He was a fine servant of the Lord (Eph 4:14).

[Is 8:20]

"Is 8:20 — To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
We live in a time when men demean the Bible and value their wisdom and insight above all else. But never bet against the Word of God! Regardless of current opinion, it proclaims the truth and will be completely vindicated." Stanley, C. F. (2005). The Charles F. Stanley life principles Bible: New King James Version (Is 8:20). Nashville, TN: Nelson Bibles.

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

a post that was not a reply to anyone and simply contained a single verse reference reminded me of all the times that you do quotes verses completely out of context.

Right Divider

...[A] post that was not a reply to anyone and simply contained a single verse reference...

Something about Jn 3:36 ESV that bothers you?

Your posts prove you to be a liar.

You're projecting again (Ro 3:4).

[Ro 3:4] Great example of taking scripture out of context...

Eph 4:14

"Let God be true (γινέσθω ὁ Θεὸς ἀληθής). Rev., better, “let God be found true;” thus giving the force of γίνομαι to become. See on was, I am, John 8:58. The phrase is used with reference to men’s apprehension. Let God turn out to be or be found to be by His creatures." Vincent, M. R. (1887). Word studies in the New Testament (Vol. 3, p. 33). New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons.

More irrelevant opinion.

You're projecting again (Eph 4:14).

See:

Tactics of the Left

john w

[Lordship]

Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

See:

The Necessity of Repentance Grace to You

heir

[Repentance is required for conversion (Acts 26:20).] Nope...

Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

See:

The Necessity of Repentance by John MacArthur

The Grace of God in Salvation by Charles Stanley

Ktoyou

Salvation is not an act of works.

Derf

What is it an act of?

Rom. 3:26, 27

We, the real deal,

will abide in him: as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him (1 Jn 2:27b).

Can a Person Live Like the Devil and Still be Saved?

Jacob

All of the commands of Jesus should be obeyed.

If one claims to be a Christ follower,

we can expect him to follow Christ (1 Jn 1:7).

Ktoyou

[Derf

What is it an act of?] Well, it is not an act of you acting cuckoo.

He saves men (Heb 5:9).

Right Divider

It completely depends on how you follow Him. If you try to follow Him as the minister of the circumcision (as most here do), then you'd be wrong...

Why don't you let God deal with the Jew? Mal 4:5

How 'bout you obey that Christ you claim to follow (Eph 4:14).

"Depends on what the meaning of is is."

~ Bill Clinton

You are a complete wacko.

Ad hominem (Eph 4:14).

Jacob

Christ followers do follow Christ.

To say all Christians follow Christ is just to say that all Christians are Christians.

The rest around here are looking for assurance when they are on this list:

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Co 6:9–10).

If you're on the list, you need to repent and seek the Lord (Mt 6:33).

And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God (1 Co 6:11, emphasis mine).

God's Truth

Is there a sin you have trouble giving up?

Mt 7:5

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

heir

You are a snake...

You're projecting again (Eph 4:14).

One must yield to his lordship in order to be saved (Ge 45:4).

See:

The Gospel According To Joseph by Adrian Rogers

heir

You must be convicted of sin in order to be saved (John 16:7–11).

"People join churches like they join a country club like they're doing God a favor. They have never seen themselves as sinners in the sight of a righteous and holy God." ~ Adrian Rogers

Cross Reference

Nah!

“When man repents of sin, God repents of judgment.” ~ Adrian Rogers Is 58:6

john w

[Lordship]

See:

The Riches of God's Grace - Part 2 by Charles Stanley

Our Sin - The Ultimate Question Part 1 by Charles Stanley

We aren't ignorant of your devices, Johnny (Eph 4:14). <Thread closed>

Repent (Ac 2:38). Keep repenting when you stumble (1 Jn 1:9). If you think you can sin all you want and go to heaven, you are on the broad road (Mt 7:13).

Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness (Mt 6:33a, emphasis mine).

Ac 2:38

See:

What is repentance and is it necessary for salvation?

Right Divider

So you consider "gotquestions.org" to be the great authority on the Bible?

Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

I get infractions when I post in this thread. It's been closed by the way (not by me

).

I'd tag you

but I've been banned from taggin as well.

Let me just answer here because Lordship is the topic anyway.

Musterion: ...How does one who has been judicially declared dead in Christ, and so is reckoned as dead to sin and to the condemning Law, get judged?

Musterion is dead? Does he ever get up like a zombie?

1 Co 15:31, 1 Jn 1:9

For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I [Rom. 7:15].

"Here we have the conflict of two natures, the old nature and the new nature. There are definitely two “I’s” in this section. The first “I” is the old nature as he asserts his rights. “For what I would” is what the new nature wants to do. “That do I not”—the old nature rebels and won’t do it. “But what I hate”—the new nature hates it—“that do I”; the old nature goes right ahead and does it.

Do you have the experience of this struggle in your Christian life? Do you do something, then hate yourself because you have done it? And you cry out, “God, oh, how I’ve failed You!” I think every child of God has this experience. Paul is speaking of his own experience in this section. Apparently there were three periods in his life. First he was a proud Pharisee under the Mosaic system, kidding himself by bringing the sacrifices and doing other things which he thought would make him right with God. But the Law was condemning him all the while. Then the second period began when he met Christ on the Damascus Road. This proud young Pharisee turned to Christ as his Savior, but he still felt he could live the Christian life. His new nature said, “I am now going to live for God!” But he failed and was in the arena of struggle and failure for a time. I do not know how long it lasted—probably it was not long. There came a day when there was victory, but Paul did not win it; Christ did. Paul learned that it was a mattter of yielding, presenting himself and letting the Spirit of God live the Christian life through him." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (Romans 1-8) (electronic ed., Vol. 42, pp. 130–131). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

The Word of Faith movement says you pray once

and then never again (2 Pe 2:1).

Parable of the persistent friend:

And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.

“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened." Lk 11:5-10

patrick jane

You have now been blessed by the teachings of saint john w the great and most humble.

Saint John, the high theologian (Jas 3:1).

"When you educate without the Holy Spirit, you only get a clever devil." ~ Adrian Rogers

[

What sin?

] Confess your faults [Jas 5:16a].

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may he healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much [James 5:15–16].

""And the prayer of faith shall save the sick.” I believe you are to call on God’s people to pray for you when you are sick.

“Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed.” We are to confess our sins to God but our faults one to another. If I have injured you, then I ought to confess that to you. But I will not confess my sins to you, and I do not want you confessing your sins to me. You are to confess that to the Lord. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). I cannot forgive sins; neither can any clergyman forgive sins—only God can do that." McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed., Vol. 5, p. 670). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

[What sin?

1 Jn 1:8]

Christians must repent (1 Jn 1:9)

not

once.

Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling (2 Th 1:11a).

[

What sin?

]

Ro 3:23, 1 Jn 1:9

The blood cleanses better than Shout and Oxi Clean (Is 1:18, 1 John 1:7).

[

What sin?

]

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God (1 Jn 3:9 ESV, emphasis mine).

But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable (Jas 3:17a, emphasis mine).

Righteousness and peace have kissed (Ps 85:10b, emphasis mine).

Divine Romance ~ Phil Wickham

Cross Reference

I thought you were banned from all things Christian, "snakebird". Somebody leave the back door open?

Removed from Discussion

...Talk Amongst Yourselves SNL

"Truth is hate to those who hate the truth." ~ Bob Enyart Mk 9:41, 13:7, 25:8, 40, Dan 10:13, Ps 105:15, Ro 14:4, Mk 6:11, Is 45:24, 54:17, Re 12:10, 12, Jud 1:9

The Christian isn’t sinless. He sins less.

See:

The Pardon of Prayer, Part 2 by John MacArthur

Lilstu

I think you are correct. It is very hard to never sin. I don't think God's standard was ever for mankind to be totally sinless. The Hebrew Scriptures made allowances. King David was a sinner and God loved him.

Right. That's was why Paul was bummed about the demonic flesh still sticking to his bones (Ro 7:24).

[Liars in scripture] ...[A]ll these lies were never punished, they were usually rewarded...

Jacob (usurper) tried--reached for more. Can't say that about Esau. He didn't give a damn about spiritual things (Gen. 25:29–34, Ro 9:13). Some just aren't interested in being more than a seed of a serpent.

And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau’s heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them [Gen. 25:26].

"Isaac and Rebekah had been married for about twenty years before the children were born. The older one was Esau, and they called him “Red,” if you please. Jacob took hold on Esau’s heel; so they called him Jacob, meaning the usurper, because he was trying to become the elder or to take his place—but God had already promised that to him." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Law (Genesis 16-33) (electronic ed., Vol. 2, pp. 106–107). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

See:
2 Peter 2: Are We OSAS Once Saved Always Saved?

Lordship Salvation: perverting the gospel of Christ