Why would God need a place like this traditional eternal hell? Why would he co-exist with such a place in eternity?

ok doser

He doesn't "co-exist" with it - it is separate from Him--which is kinda the point.

Right. It's not all about Mickiel.

God can not think of him when he is there.

[2 Co 5:19]

Ad infinitum Eph 4:14

[1 Ti 1:15]

Ad infinitum Eph 4:14

Response to comment [from other]: "Matt. 6:10, again and again Jesus, " Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done." Here Jesus teaches that God's will, is going to get done."

"Mt 6:10. Thy kingdom come The kingdom of God is that moral and spiritual kingdom which the God of grace is setting up in this fallen world, whose subjects consist of as many as have been brought into hearty subjection to His gracious scepter, and of which His Son Jesus is the glorious Head. In the inward reality of it, this kingdom existed ever since there were men who walked with God (Ge 5:24), and waited for His salvation (Ge 49:18); who were continually with Him, holden by His right hand (Ps 73:23), and who, even in the valley of the shadow of death, feared no evil when He was with them (Ps 23:4). When Messiah Himself appeared, it was, as a visible kingdom, at hand. His death laid the deep foundations of it. His ascension on high, leading captivity captive and receiving gifts for men, yea, for the rebellious, that the Lord God might dwell among them, and the Pentecostal effusion of the Spirit, by which those gifts for men descended upon the rebellious, and the Lord God was beheld, in the persons of thousands upon thousands, dwelling among men was a glorious coming of this kingdom. But it is still to come, and this petition, Thy kingdom come, must not cease to ascend so long as one subject of it remains to be brought in. But does not this prayer stretch further forward to the glory to be revealed, or that stage of the kingdom called the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ (2 Pe 1:11)? Not directly, perhaps, since the petition that follows this Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven would then bring us back to this present state of imperfection. Still, the mind refuses to be so bounded by stages and degrees, and in the act of praying, Thy kingdom come, it irresistibly stretches the wings of its faith, and longing, and joyous expectation out to the final and glorious consummation of the kingdom of God...

Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven or, as the same words are rendered in Luke, as in heaven, so upon earth (Lu 11:2)as cheerfully, as constantly, as perfectly. But some will ask, Will this ever be? We answer, If the new heavens and new earth are to be just our present material system purified by fire and transfigured, of course it will. But we incline to think that the aspiration which we are taught in this beautiful petition to breathe forth has no direct reference to any such organic fulfillment, and is only the spontaneous and resistless longing of the renewed soul put into words to see the whole inhabited earth in entire conformity to the will of God. It asks not if ever it shall be or if ever it can be in order to pray this prayer. It must have its holy yearnings breathed forth, and this is just the bold yet simple expression of them. Nor is the Old Testament without prayers which come very near to this (Ps 7:9; 67:17; 72:19)." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 26). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"I just found out Freelight is a man, I think he is a terrific writer."

Of course you do. He's an antichrist (2 Pe 2:1).

As a reminder Freelight is number 1 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in the 'Misc.' category.

"We as believers..."

You aren't a believer (2 Pe 2:1).

"In Phil.2:13, " For it is God which work in you both the will and to do his good pleasure!"

"of his good pleasure rather as Greek, FOR His good pleasure; in order to carry out His sovereign gracious purpose towards you (Eph 1:5, 9)." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 364). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"It is God who manipulates the humans will..."

He doesn't manipulate your will (Ge 2:17). That would make him sick.

[Eccl. 7:13]

"Eccl 7:13 make straight what He has made crooked. Man should consider Gods activity because God is sovereign, decreeing and controlling everything under the sun (cf. 1:15)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 934). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

[John 6:44]

Ad infinitum Eph 4:14

[Satan Inc.] "Since your so proud of that list, as if it means something, have them put me on it, which explains what I care about it."

If you claimed to be a Christian, you would be on that list.

"...Isaiah 45:22-23, " Look unto me and be saved..."

"Is 45:22. Look and be ye saved. The second imperative expresses the result which will follow obedience to the first (Ge 42:18); ye shall be saved (Jn 3:14, 15). Nu 21:9: If a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass he lived. What so simple as a look? Not do something, but look to the Saviour (Ac 16:30, 31). Believers look by faith, the eye of the soul. The look is that of one turning (see Margin) to God, as at once Just and the Saviour (Is 45:21), that is, the look of conversion (Ps 22:27)." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 1, p. 483). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

[Numbers 23:19]

"Nu 23:18, 19. Rise up As Balak was already standing (Nu 23:17), this expression is equivalent to now attend to me. The counsels and promises of God respecting Israel are unchangeable; and no attempt to prevail on Him to reverse them will succeed, as they may with a man.

Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 1, p. 112). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

[Isaiah 46:9-10]

"Is 46:9 Remember the former things of old. The readers are to recall: 1) all the past history of fulfilled prophecies, as well as 2) miraculous deliverances such as that from Egypt, and 3) providential blessings Israel has experienced. All of these are ample evidence that He alone is God." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1027). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

[Satan Inc.] "Hey, have them put me on it anyway..."

You identify as 'other'; therefore, you are not on the list.

"...Daniel 4:35...that is what God thinks about religious opinion."

"Dan 4:35. all as nothing(Is 40:15, 17).

according to his will in ¦ heaven(Ps 115:3; 135:6; Mt 6:10; Eph 1:11)." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 1, p. 629). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"Christianity cannot stop God from saving everybody..."

Ac 20:20

"This nasty hell....As if he does not care for unbelievers."

Ro 5:8

[Mal 2:10]

Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? [Mal. 2:10].

Have we not all one father? There are some expositors who say that the father refers to Abraham since both Israel and Judah are mentioned in the verse that follows. However, I think that the next question makes it clear that Malachi is speaking about God as the Father: Hath not one God created us?

He also makes it clear in what way God is the Father. He is the Father by creation. But man lost that relationship. Adam was called the son of God, but after the Fall, he begat a son in his own likeness not in the likeness of God, but in the likeness of his own fallen nature. Therefore, when the nation Israel comes into view, we do not find God speaking specifically of any individual Israelite as His son. Rather, He speaks of the corporate body of the nation as a son. Never in the Old Testament does God refer to an individual as His son. Even of two men who were outstanding, Moses and David, it was Moses my servant and David my servant. Never does God say, Moses my son or David my son. Individuals become sons of God through faith in Jesus Christ. God is the Father of mankind in the sense that He is the Creator.

This is something that has been greatly emphasized in our contemporary society, and I think properly so. On a telecast I heard a man, who was definitely an unsaved man, play up the fact that we are all human beings and that we ought to show respect and consideration for one another. Well, that is true. As far as he went, he was entirely accurate. You are a human being and I am a human being, and I should accord to you the same rights and privileges and respect that I would like to have for myself. Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? We all are the creation of God.

Why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? Now here they were, a chosen people, yet breaking Gods covenant and dealing treacherously one with the other. They were not right with God, and so they were not right with each other.

This is certainly true of man in our day. I personally have to say that there are a great many unsaved people that I wouldn't trust. And, unfortunately, having been in the church most of my life, I have to say that there are a lot in the church whom I would not trust either. I have no confidence in them at all. Why? They deal treacherously. There is nothing that hurts the cause of Christ more than a church fight, conflicts in the church, and leaders who are at each others throats. Regardless of how evangelistic a church may be, its witness is nil when those conditions exist. McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Prophets (Malachi) (electronic ed., Vol. 33, pp. 4142). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"...Isaiah 40:17...he could care less what his followers believe."

"Is 40:1517 Since the surrounding nations who had oppressed Israel were utterly insignificant in comparison to the Lords greatness and power, they could not prevent His purposes from being accomplished. His deliverance of Israel was certain." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1014). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

[Isaiah 40:17]

Ad infinitum Eph 4:14

"...None of this confused crap on earth means anything to him..."

Mt 12:36

[Eph. 1:9-10]

Adam and Eve had life and a relationship with him. They lost access to the tree of life (Gen. 2:9). He is that life (Jn 14:6, Re 2:7).

"Eph 1:9. He hath abounded, or made (grace) to abound toward us (Eph 1:8), in that He made known to us, namely, experimentally, in our hearts.

the mystery Gods purpose of redemption hidden heretofore in His counsels, but now revealed (Eph 6:19; Ro 16:25; Col 1:26, 27). This mystery is not like the heathen mysteries, which were imparted only to the initiated few. All Christians are the initiated. Only unbelievers are the uninitiated.

according to his good pleasure showing the cause why He hath made known to us the mystery, namely, His own loving good pleasure toward us; also the time and manner of His doing so, are according to His good pleasure.

purposed (Eph 1:11).

in himself God the Father. BENGEL takes it, in Him, that is, Christ, as in Eph 1:3, 4. But the proper name, in Christ, Eph 1:10, immediately after, is inconsistent with His being here meant by the pronoun.

10. Translate, Unto the dispensation of the fullness of the times, that is, which He purposed in Himself (Eph 1:9) with a view to the economy of (the gracious administration belonging to) the fullness of the times (Greek, fit times, seasons). More comprehensive than the fullness of the time (Ga 4:4). The whole of the Gospel times (plural) is meant, with the benefits to the Church dispensed in them severally and successively. Compare the ages to come (Eph 2:7). The ends of the ages (Greek, 1 Co 10:11); the times (same Greek as here, the seasons, or fitly appointed times) of the Gentiles (Lu 21:24); the seasons which the Father hath put in His own power (Ac 1:7); the times of restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the prophets since the world began (Ac 3:20, 21). The coming of Jesus at the first advent, in the fullness of time, was one of these times. The descent of the Holy Ghost, when Pentecost was fully come (Ac 2:1), was another. The testimony given by the apostles to Him in due time (in its own seasons, Greek) (1 Ti 2:6) was another. The conversion of the Jews when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, the second coming of Christ, the restitution of all things, the millennial kingdom, the new heaven and earth, shall be severally instances of the dispensation of the fullness of the times, that is, the dispensation of the Gospel events and benefits belonging to their respective times, when severally filled up or completed. God the Father, according to His own good pleasure and purpose, is the Dispenser both of the Gospel benefits and of their several fitting times (Ac 1:7).

gather together in one Greek, sum up under one head; recapitulate. The good pleasure which He purposed, was to sum up all things (Greek, THE whole range of things) in Christ (Greek, the Christ, that is, His Christ) [ALFORD]. Gods purpose is to sum up the whole creation in Christ, the Head of angels, with whom He is linked by His invisible nature, and of men with whom He is linked by His humanity; of Jews and Gentiles; of the living and the dead (Eph 3:15); of animate and inanimate creation. Sin has disarranged the creatures relation of subordination to God. God means to gather up all together in Christ; or as Col 1:20 says, By Him to reconcile all things unto Himself, whether things in earth or things in heaven. ALFORD well says, The Church of which the apostle here mainly treats, is subordinated to Him in the highest degree of conscious and joyful union; those who are not His spiritually, in mere subjugation, yet consciously; the inferior tribes of creation unconsciously; but objectively, all are summed up in Him." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 342). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"I disagree so much with those concordances, but not everything in them; but enough. Just to show you I am not against them totally, I actually like Scofield's concordance. And a bit of Strong's."

It's all about what you

like (Pr 16:25).

"Why would God need a hell, when he could shrink humans to the size of microbes , and just put them in a fishbowl. Then he could turn the water in the bowl into fire. And just set the bowl on a table somewhere."

God loves and God hates (Mal 1:3). Esau didn't give a damn about spiritual things (Gen. 25:2934). If you are an Esau type, you go to hell (Heb. 12:16, 17).

See:

Indifference
Denial
Rebellion

"Why would God need to have a judgment, when Christians are judging people now?"

See:

Should Christians Judge? Judge Rightly Is Not Some Guy's Name by Bob Enyart

Response to comment [from a Christian]: [Fish bowl] "Who says that isn't what He meant by saying 'outer darkness'?"

Wish You Were Here

~ Pink Floyd

"Because we judge with his spirit, but He, alone, knows all things."

1 Co 2:10

1 Cor. 5:13

See:

Heretics, Apostates and False Disciples

Response to comment [from a Christian: [Why would God need a hell, when he could shrink humans to the size of microbes, and just put them in a fishbowl. Then he could turn the water in the bowl into fire. And just set the bowl on a table somewhere.] "And use it as a nifty nightlight.

"

We don't have to change the water, do we? Re 3:18

Response to comment [from other]: "Yes, he could even shrink enough of them, because Christianity is projecting billions of humans will be hell fodder ; shrink them into hundreds of little bowls and then create a kind of " Hell street", that leads to a place of darkness, but God could use this laminated path as an eternal example for the pearly bright righteous people to walk a bit of the way on, just to see what happens to ugly sinners; then they could get to the end and turn around and not loose their way, because the little bowls of the dammed are so well lit with the fire."

No, no. You've got it all wrong.

The servant tells the Master, "There's still room." Love this guy. He could have said, "We're good." But no, he gets back out there to find more:

A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, Come, for all things are now ready. But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused. And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused. Still another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the maimed and the lame and the blind. And the servant said, Master, it is done as you commanded, and still there is room.

Then the master said to the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper. The New King James Version. (1982). (Lk 14:2324). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"...Will they be allowed bathroom breaks, or must they urinate where they stand? Its going to get quite messy..."

Didn't you choose to live in filth your whole life, anyway?

2 Pe 2:22

"The first love that believers lost is love for people..."

Ac 20:20

"1 John 3:11...Love does not preach a hell fire message."

Love tells the truth (Jn 8:32).

"1 Jn 3:11. the message announcement, as of something good; not a mere command, as the law. The Gospel message of Him who loved us, announced by His servants, is, that we love the brethren; not here all mankind, but those who are our brethren in Christ, children of the same family of God, of whom we have been born anew.

12. who not in the Greek.

of that wicked one. Translate, evil one, to accord with Because his own works were evil. Compare 1 Jn 3:8, of the devil, in contrast to of God, 1 Jn 3:10." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 532). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"When you love, you forgive..."

We forgive men when they repent (Lk 17:3). God forgives when men when they repent (Mt 3:2, Ac 9:35).

See:

"Stop Me! Before I Forgive Again..." by Bob Enyart

[Job 12:10]

Ad infinitum Eph 4:14

[Didn't you choose to live in filth your whole life?

2 Pe 2:22

] "I hope and pray, through Jesus Christ our Lord..."

You are not a Christian (Eph 4:14).

"...I never even say anything like this to another human being."

I'll put that down as a 'yes' (Mt 16:19).

"Judging by your behavior..."

You're projecting again (Eph 4:14)

By your behavior (Deut 32:32).

"I don't want to be one."

Jn 3:16

"You ought to be ashamed for telling someone they live in filth..."

You're projecting again (Eph 4:14).

You ought to be ashamed living in filth (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10, 2 Pe 2:22).

"I'm a little piggy. Here's my snout. Oink oink oink oink oink oink."

~ Eric Cartman, South Park

Response to comment [from a "Christian"]: "One doesn't need to forgive unless you have judged another to begin with. Matthew 7:1-3 King James Version (KJV) Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Be willing to be judged by the same standard.

See:

Should Christians Judge?

As a reminder Caino is number 38 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

"None of us are competent to Judge others. That's Jesus 101."

That's Hillary 101.

1 Co 6:3

"You know we just have to cancel out Christians when we read 1 Thess. 3:12, " And the Lord make you increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men..."

"1 Thess 3:12 ...to all. In light of the fact that God loved the world and sent His son to die for human sin (John 3:16), believers who were loved when they were unlovely (Rom. 5:8) are to love unbelievers (see notes on Matt. 5:43, 44). Other NT commands concerning all men include pursuing peace (Rom. 12:18), doing good (Gal. 6:10), being patient (Phil. 4:5), praying (1 Tim. 2:1), showing consideration (Titus 3:2), and honoring (1 Pet. 2:17)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1846). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

"God would need a hell like Christianity would need a hole in the head."

Head like a hole ~ NIN

See:

Hell

"Hell is what Christianity would do to the neighbors of humanity they did not like."

They are POWs (2 Ti 2:26). We prefer men get saved.

"2 Ti:2:26 the snare of the devil. Deception is Satan's trap. He is an inveterate, scheming, clever, and subtle purveyor of lies. See notes on Gen. 3:46; John 8:44; 2 Cor. 11:1315; Rev. 12:9...

3:4, 5 not ¦ die. Satan, emboldened by her openness to him, spoke this direct lie. This lie actually led her and Adam to spiritual death (separation from God). So, Satan is called a liar and murderer from the beginning (John 8:44). His lies always promise great benefits (as in v. 5). Eve experienced this result she and Adam did know good and evil; but by personal corruption, they did not know as God knows in perfect holiness.

3:6 good ¦ pleasant ¦ desirable. She decided that Satan was telling the truth and she had misunderstood God, but she didn't know what she was doing. It was not overt rebellion against God, but seduction and deception to make her believe her act was the right thing to do (cf. v. 13). The NT confirms that Eve was deceived (2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Tim. 2:14; Rev. 12:9). he ate. A direct transgression without deception (see note on 1 Tim. 2:13, 14).

3:7 opened ¦ knew ¦ sewed. The innocence noted in 2:25 had been replaced by guilt and shame (vv. 810), and from then on they had to rely on their conscience to distinguish between good and their newly acquired capacity to see and know evil...

8:44 your father the devil. Sonship is predicated on conduct. A son will manifest his fathers characteristics (cf. Eph. 5:1, 2). Since the Jews exhibited the patterns of Satan in their hostility toward Jesus and their failure to believe in Him as Messiah, their paternity was the exact opposite of their claims, i.e., they belonged to Satan. He was a murderer from the beginning. Jesus words refer to the fall when Satan tempted Adam and Eve and successfully killed their spiritual life (Gen. 2:17; 3:1724; Rom. 5:12; Heb. 2:14). Some think that the reference may also refer to Cain's murder of Abel (Gen. 4:19; 1 John 3:12)...

11:1315 No longer speaking with veiled irony or defending himself, Paul bluntly and directly exposed the false apostles for what they were emissaries of Satan. Not only was their claim to apostleship false, so also was their doctrine (see note on v. 4). As satanic purveyors of false teaching, they were under the curse of Gal. 1:8, 9. Paul's forceful language may seem harsh, but it expressed the godly jealousy he felt for the Corinthians (see note on v. 2). Paul was unwilling to sacrifice truth for the sake of unity. Cf. 1 Tim. 4:12; 2 Pet. 2:117; Jude 813...

12:9 dragon was cast ¦ to the earth. Satan and his demons were cast out of heaven at the time of their original rebellion, but still have access to it (cf. Job 1:6; 2:1). That access will then be denied, and they will be forever barred from heaven. Devil and Satan. Cf. 20:2. Devil comes from a Gr. verb meaning to slander or to falsely accuse. He is a malignant liar (John 8:44; 1 John 3:8). His accusations against believers (v. 10) are unsuccessful because of Christ our Advocate (1 John 2:1). Satan, meaning adversary, or enemy, appears especially in Job and the gospels. deceives the whole world. As he has throughout human history, Satan will deceive people during the Tribulation (cf. 13:14; 20:3; John 8:44). After his temporary release from the bottomless pit at the end of the Millennium, he will briefly resume his deceitful ways (20:8, 10)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 2008). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

"...I know that scripture cannot sedate the Christian lust for hell..."

We prefer that you repent (2 Pe 3:9, Ac 20:20).

"Matt. 5:4 " Blessed are they that mourn...hat means they will be saved; and unbelievers are in grief!"

You cause grief

for now

(Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10).

"Mt 5:4. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. This mourning must not be taken loosely for that feeling which is wrung from men under pressure of the ills of life, nor yet strictly for sorrow on account of committed sins. Evidently it is that entire feeling which the sense of our spiritual poverty begets; and so the second beatitude is but the complement of the first. The one is the intellectual, the other the emotional aspect of the same thing. It is poverty of spirit that says, I am undone; and it is the mourning which this causes that makes it break forth in the form of a lamentation. Woe is me! for I am undone. Hence this class are termed mourners in Zion, or, as we might express it, religious mourners, in sharp contrast with all other sorts (Is 61:13; 66:2). Religion, according to the Bible, is neither a set of intellectual convictions nor a bundle of emotional feelings, but a compound of both, the former giving birth to the latter. Thus closely do the first two beatitudes cohere. The mourners shall be comforted. Even now they get beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness. Sowing in tears, they reap even here in joy. Still, all present comfort, even the best, is partial, interrupted, short-lived. But the days of our mourning shall soon be ended, and then God shall wipe away all tears from our eyes. Then, in the fullest sense, shall the mourners be comforted." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 17). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"They [Christians] could have their own private torture chambers and satisfy their favorite spiritual desire's forever."

Christians prefer that men repent (2 Pe 3:9, Ac 20:20).

"Mt 5:5. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. This promise to the meek is but a repetition of Ps 37:11; only the word which our Evangelist renders the meek, after the Septuagint, is the same which we have found so often translated the poor, showing how closely allied these two features of character are. It is impossible, indeed, that the poor in spirit and the mourners in Zion should not at the same time be meek; that is to say, persons of a lowly and gentle carriage. How fitting, at least, it is that they should be so, may be seen by the following touching appeal: Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, to speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men: FOR WE OURSELVES WERE ONCE FOOLISH, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures ¦ But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared ¦: according to His mercy He saved us, &c. (Tit 3:17). But He who had no such affecting reasons for manifesting this beautiful carriage, said, nevertheless, of Himself, Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls (Mt 11:29); and the apostle besought one of the churches by the meekness and gentleness of Christ (2 Co 10:1). In what esteem this is held by Him who seeth not as man seeth, we may learn from 1 Pe 3:4, where the true adorning is said to be that of a meek and quiet spirit, which in the sight of God is of great price. Towards men this disposition is the opposite of high-mindedness, and a quarrelsome and revengeful spirit; it rather takes wrong, and suffers itself to be defrauded (1 Co 6:7); it avenges not itself, but rather gives place unto wrath (Ro 12:19); like the meek One, when reviled, it reviles not again; when it suffers, it threatens not: but commits itself to Him that judgeth righteously (1 Pe 2:1922). The earth which the meek are to inherit might be rendered the land bringing out the more immediate reference to Canaan as the promised land, the secure possession of which was to the Old Testament saints the evidence and manifestation of Gods favor resting on them, and the ideal of all true and abiding blessedness. Even in the Psalm from which these words are taken the promise to the meek is not held forth as an arbitrary reward, but as having a kind of natural fulfillment. When they delight themselves in the Lord, He gives them the desires of their heart: when they commit their way to Him, He brings it to pass; bringing forth their righteousness as the light, and their judgment as the noonday: the little that they have, even when despoiled of their rights, is better than the riches of many wicked (Ps 37:124). All things, in short, are their sin the possession of that favor which is life, and of those rights which belong to them as the children of God whether the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are theirs (1 Co 3:21, 22); and at length, overcoming, they inherit all things (Rev 21:7). Thus are the meek the only rightful occupants of a foot of ground or a crust of bread here, and heirs of all coming things." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, pp. 1718). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"Hey, why would God need a hell, when he could turn all unbelievers into the soles on Christian shoes that way they could walk all over them for eternity."

Christians prefer that men repent (2 Pe 3:9, Ac 20:20). That's why they have travelled the world to share the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ (Mk 16:15).

See:

What Has Christianity Done for the World?

Cause of Christ

"Hey, why would God need a hell? Why waste good meat? He could turn the savory unbelievers into barbecue after he roast's them for a

thousand years or so and use them to feed the animals in the Kingdom."

Animals won't be eating each other (Is 11:6, Rev. 20:110).

"Hey, why would God need a hell when he could hold a raffle in heaven, ask each resident for their opinion as to what to do with the unbelievers; you know, get some fresh ideas. There would be no need to include the Christians in the raffle, because we already know what they would do with unbelievers."

Who cares what we think? What has God said?

Ac 20:20, Jn 1:1, 1 Pe 1:25

See:

Hell

"...If he [God] wanted to be evil, he could just use the creative desires of Christians to punish unbelievers."

Christians prefer that men repent (2 Pe 3:9, Ac 20:20). We like eyes balls remaining well in their sockets (Zech 14:12).

"You've got all the examples you need of merciless religious headhunting..."

We aren't pygmies. We are fishers of men (Mt 4:19).

"They [Christians] hold to the doctrine of the dammed, the doctrine of the Nicolaitians in Rev. 2:15 that Christ hates!"

"Re 2:15 Thus you also. The teaching of the Nicolaitans led to the same behavior as Balaam's schemes. doctrine of the Nicolaitans. See note on v. 6...

2:6 the deeds of the Nicolaitans. A problem in Pergamos also (vv. 1215), this heresy was similar to the teaching of Balaam (vv. 14, 15). Nicolas means one who conquers the people. Irenaeus writes that Nicolas, who was made a deacon in Acts 6, was a false believer who later became apostate; but because of his credentials he was able to lead the church astray. And, like Balaam, he led the people into immorality and wickedness. The Nicolaitans, followers of Nicolas, were involved in immorality and assaulted the church with sensual temptations. Clement of Alexander says, They abandoned themselves to pleasure like goats, leading a life of self-indulgence. Their teaching perverted grace and replaced liberty with license." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1994). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

"Why should a Christian give up hell belief, I mean, what else would they do with the unbelievers?"

We do what God tells us to do (Lk 19:27).

"...If God wanted a hell, I'm sure the Christian prosperity ministries would rent him one."

Christians suffer in this life (Jn 15:2023) often at the hands of your type (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10).

There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich mans table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abrahams bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Then he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.

Then he said, I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my fathers house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment. Abraham said to him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent. But he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead. The New King James Version. (1982). (Lk 16:1931). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"Christians are experts at excluding others."

Mk 16:15, Ro 5:1520

"Why would God need a hell, all he has to do is destroy Christian doctrine."

Isn't that what you work toward every day?

2 Cor. 11:315

"Why would God need a hell, when all he has to do is throw religion into the lake of fire."

That would be easy (1 Kin. 12:2731, Mt 7:14).

"The Christian mindset has been seduced into thinking that they love..."

We love the brethren (1 Jn 3:14).

You hate us (Mt 24:9, 10) and you hate yourself (Pr 8:36)--

for good reason

(Jn 3:20).

[Rev. 2:4]

"Re 2:4 ...left thy first love to Christ. Compare 1 Ti 5:12, cast off their first faith. See the Ephesians first love, Eph 1:15. This epistle was written under Domitian, when thirty years had elapsed since Paul had written his Epistle to them. Their warmth of love had given place to a lifeless orthodoxy. Compare Paul's view of faith so called without love, 1 Co 13:2." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 555). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

[Duplicate post] "We are over 900 scriptures in thread!"

Not one handled honestly (Ps. 35:20).

"I have seen the salvation of all humans in scripture, and I am not the only one; in Luke 2:30-31, " For my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared before the face of all people.""

"Lk 2:30 Your salvation. I.e., the One who would redeem His people from their sins.

2:31 all peoples. I.e., all nations, tongues, and tribes (cf. Rev. 7:9)both Israel and the Gentiles (v. 32)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1516). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

"In Isaiah 52:10 " ALL the ends of the earth shall see the Salvation of our Lord."

"Is 52:10 all earth see salvation of God. The deliverance wrought by God for Israel will cause all nations to acknowledge the Lord (Is 66:1820). The partial fulfillment (Lu 3:6) is a forerunner of the future complete fulfillment." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 1, p. 489). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"Eternal hell punishing is the Christian Ad Infinitum, they don't want their mad theology to ever end."

Argument by repetition (Eph 4:14).

"...They want to stick the knife in every second of every hour of every day of every week of every month of every year of every moment without end. They want to twist that knife into the unbeliever and turn it over and over and over again until it hurts all the time."

Or you could repent (Ac 9:35).

"They want to throw Rev. 21:4 out of the bible."

They do not look forward to Re 21:4

That's why there are tears in their eyes.

"...The Christian way of getting back at the world for mistreating them in the past."

You could stop mistreating them (Prov. 21:7).

Return to your Egypt (Gen. 37:2530, Mt 12:24).

"I don't believe that humans need to be destroyed; they need to be changed..."

Then change (Lk 10:27, Mt 5:48).

"....[A]nd God is able to do that."

Will your wicked heart let him?

Jer 17:9 Do you love your sin too much?

Jn 3:19

"The second death, is the death of the first death."

Your punishment is everlasting.

See:

Hell

"Why would God need a hell, when he could just give everyone another chance?"

Choose life (Deut 30:19, Josh 24:15, Is 55:6, Eze 18:31).

"Christians and many religions say that God cannot save everyone, Job 42:2 says he can. I know you can do everything! Those believers in God just don't know him."

You're projecting again (Eph 4:14).

Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee [Job 42:12].

"Is that the kind of God you have? Can He do anything?

There is the old saw about God: Can God make a rock so big that He cant lift it? That is like the question to Mr. Milquetoast, Are you still beating your wife? You see, there is no answer because you are caught whether you answer it yes or no. The question about God has no answer because God never does anything foolish. He always does that which is in the context of His character. He is always true to Himself. So you cannot tell God to do something that He cannot do. Do you know why not? Because, my friend, you are in no position to do that. God is not your errand boy. God is not going to jump through any hoop just because you hold it up." McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed., Vol. 2, pp. 654655). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"Jb 42:16 Jobs confession and repentance took place finally. He still did not know why he suffered so profoundly, but he was done complaining, questioning, and challenging Gods wisdom and justice. He was reduced to such utter humility, crushed beneath the weight of Gods greatness, that all he could do was repent for his insolence. Without answers to all of his questions, Job quietly bowed in humble submission before his Creator and admitted that God was sovereign (cf. Is. 14:24; 46:811). Most importantly for the message of the book, Job was still diseased and without his children and possessions, and God had not changed anything (except for the humbling of the heart of his servant). Satan had been proven completely wrong in the charges he brought against Job and in thinking he could destroy true saving faith; Jobs companions were completely wrong in the charges they brought against him; but most critically, Job himself was completely wrong in the charges he had raised against God. He expressed his own sorrowful regret that he had not just accepted Gods will without such ignorant complaints and questions." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 739). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

"What the world needs now is Love sweet Love. The world does not need some hell doctrine from religion; that's embarrassing."

Didn't the Beatles sing that? All ya need is love...

I think John Lennon needed a bullet proof vest.

Ac 17:27

"Why would God need a hell when he could put all the Christians on a planet that has no unbelievers on it. They would have no one to punish."

You've offended a holy God. It's going to take an eternity for you to pay for your sin.

Too bad you didn't appreciate the exceeding sinfulness of sin (Ro 7:13).

"Too bad."

~ Seth Brundle, The Fly

Truly I tell you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny (Mt 5:26).

"Every human born again in the Kingdom, their body will perish. Their flesh is destined to perish."

We are raised (Jn 5:28, 29) and changed (Phil 3:21).

You have a guarantee of coming judgment (Acts 17:31).

"Why would the Great God need a hell? Hell is for losers, and losers created its doctrine."

See:

Hell

"God is a winner; he loses nothing."

God is a winner. He is holy (Is. 11:4, 5) and just (Deut 31:4).

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "I care not if you disagree with God. The Bible says what it says."

"Ouch." ~ E.T.

Response to comment [from other]: "I clearly stated that I disagree with the Christian message, I do not disagree with God."

When we speak from the word of God, we have all authority of any apostle or prophet. (Ps. 119:142, 151, 160).

"The large ego of Christianity..."

1 Co 1:27

"...is trying to equate themselves with God; I agree with the bible, I disagree with Christianity."

Jn 8:37, 14:6

"But see you Christians equate yourselves with God and the bible, so if anyone disagree with you, you think they disagree with God..."

Who cares what we think? What has God said?

See:

Hell

"Why would God need a hell, when death and the grave will be no more?"

For us (1 Jn 3:14).

Not all y'all (Jn 3:36, Mt 8:2933).

"Why would God need a hell, when all he has to do is mute Christian teaching."

Mt 5:16

"It's free salvation verses the misery message of hell..."

Turn (Ac 9:35), repent (Ac 8:22), return (1 Sam. 7:3), convert (Ac 15:3).

"...He [God] knew the Christians would pursue hell with a harshness."

Jesus spoke of hell more than any other person in the bible. You'll believe him or you won't.

See:

Hell

"[Christians] lead the hell hound packs."

We're going to heaven.

We know this because we have love for the brethren (1 Jn 3:14). We prove this by telling the truth (Ac 20:20).

Where do you believe you'll go when you die?

...[W]e have a Father God, we have a Jesus Christ, we have the word of God, we have the Holy Spirit...

You don't (Rom. 2:9).

The original message of salvation has always been positive for humanity, how did this negative hell message get so strong into human belief?...

You've got it backward.

Your warm fuzzies are a lie (Eph 4:14).

See:

What is the emerging / emergent church movement?

"We have the good news..."

Your news isn't good

if your news

isn't accurate (1 Jn 2:21, 27).

"This world is sick, it does not need some eternal punishing hell hanging over its head. It needs healing, not punishing."

You contribute to its sickness because you have not repented (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10).

Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

ok doser

Well, isn't that special?

He keeps repeating himself (Eph 4:14).

ok doser

Mickiel

Typical Christian response; its not in your DNA to admit you were wrong...

He's not wrong (Eph 4:14). He doesn't cling to his sin in rebellion (Jn 3:19)

and then expect to live in God's holy home (Ga 6:7).

He has evidence (see: Hell

You have wishful thinking.

...[Y]our religion is slap full of wrong.

Do ya feel lucky? ~ Harry Callahan, Dirty Harry

It's reality as I see it, Christianity is dead wrong about a lot of things...

Ro 8:13

I don't agree with Richard Dawkins on many things, but I agree that teaching children about eternal hell punishing is child abuse.

Ac 20:20

"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. ~ Ronald Reagan

I have no religion, I belong to no group...

May I play

your Lefty theme song? Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10

Imagine

~ John Lennon

Why do Christians think of so many ways for humans to be condemned , and so few ways for them to be saved?

Jn 14:6

I wonder what it would have been like if the Christians had spread the gospel of salvation, like they did the horror of their hell?

Jesus came to save you from: your sin, death and hell (Matt. 1:21, 1 Co 15:55, Jn 11:26).

Why would God need a hell, when he has a heart to save humanity?

He's going to do everything he can with love and mercy while remaining true to himself (Ge 18:25, 1 Sa 2:10, 1 Co 13:13).

...Heb. 9:26...the Christian hell is cancelled yet again...

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself [Heb. 9:26].

"But now once in the end of the world should read the end of the age. This has no reference to what some people call the end of the world. Actually, the Bible does not teach the end of the world; it does teach the end of the age.

Hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Christ came, made under the Law. He appeared at the end of the Law age, and He instituted a new age, the age of grace." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (Hebrews 8-13) (electronic ed., Vol. 52, p. 44). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

ok doser

If we agree with you, will you go away?

Good news for us.

Bad news for him and his minions (Re 12:12).

Mickiel

Hey...

Hey, hay is for horses (Eph 4:14).

[Micah 7:18]

God will forgive Israel.

"Mic 7:18 Who is a God like You, pardoning iniquity and passing over the transgression of the remnant of His heritage?

God was never under any obligation to forgive our sins or pardon our iniquity. We do not deserve His mercy. But He loves us and so sent His Son to die for our sins. Who, indeed, is a God like that?" Stanley, C. F. (2005). The Charles F. Stanley life principles Bible: New King James Version (Mic 7:18). Nashville, TN: Nelson Bibles.

Rev.21:4 How could a place of eternal crying, pain and sorrow exist, if God has stated it will pass away?

And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away (emphasis mine, Re 21:34).

Hey, why would God need a hell, when Jesus has a serious habit of not loosing any sheep?

You aren't his sheep. You are a wolf (Mt 7:15).

Now in this wonderful parable we see the first picture, that of a lost sheep.

And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance [Luke 15:37].

"The shepherd in this parable is the Great Shepherd, Jesus Christ. We are the sheep. He had one hundred sheep, and one of them got lost. Frankly, that would be a pretty good percentage, to start out with one hundred sheep and end up with ninety-nine. This Shepherd, however, would not be satisfied with just ninety-nine sheep. When one sheep got lost, He went out and looked for it. When He found it, He put it on His shoulders, the place of strength. He is able to save to the uttermost. The high priest of the children of Israel wore an ephod. On the shoulders of the ephod were two stones. On them were engraved the names of the twelve tribes six tribes on one stone and six on the other. The high priest carried the children of Israel on his shoulders. Our great High Priest carries us on His shoulders, and we will not become lost. When He starts out with one hundred sheep, He will come through with one hundred sheep not ninety-nine. This is a picture of the Lord Jesus Christ out looking for those who are His own." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Gospels (Luke) (electronic ed., Vol. 37, pp. 185186). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

[Jer.16:19]

"Jer. 16:19. In his cry to the Lord: My strength ¦ in the day of trouble, which agrees closely with Ps. 28:8; 59:17; 18:3, Jeremiah utters not merely his own feelings, but those which would animate every member of his people. In the time of need the powerlessness of the idols to help, and so their vanity, becomes apparent. Trouble therefore drives to God, the Almighty Lord and Ruler of the world, and forces to bend under His power. The coming tribulation is to have this fruit not only in the case of the Israelites, but also in that of the heathen nations, so that they shall see the vanity of the idolatry they have inherited from their fathers, and be converted to the Lord, the only true God. How this knowledge is to be awakened in the heathen, Jeremiah does not disclose; but it may be gathered from v. 15, from the deliverance of Israel, there announced, out of the heathen lands into which they had been cast forth. By this deliverance the heathen will be made aware both of the almighty power of the God of Israel and of the nothingness of their own gods. On ×”Ö¶×‘Ö¶×œ cf. 2:5; and with none that profiteth, cf. 2:8; 14:22. In v. 20 the prophet confirms what the heathen have been saying. The question has a negative force, as is clear from the second clause. In v. 21 we have the Lords answer to the prophets confession in v. 19. Since the Jews are so blinded that they prefer vain idols to the living God, He will this time so show them His hand and His strength in that foretold chastisement, that they shall know His name, i.e., know that He alone is God in deed and in truth. Cf. Ezek. 12:15, Ex. 3:14." Keil, C. F., & Delitzsch, F. (1996). Commentary on the Old Testament (Vol. 8, pp. 170171). Peabody, MA: Hendrickson.

How could God have a hell in eternity, and his kingdom not be considered a kingdom divided against itself?

"Mk 3:2030. Jesus is charged with madness and demoniacal possession--his reply (Mt 12:2237; Lu 11:1426)." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 68). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

...[T]he Christians want us to believe that God would create a zoo of unclean spirits and let it thrive in eternity.

No unclean thing will be permitted to live with him in heaven (Eph. 5:5). Believers are described as wearing white garments (a picture of holiness [Jn 4:35, Re 3:4, 6:11]). Too bad you never got yourself one (

a picture of the defiled [Jud 13]).

"Too bad." ~ Seth Brundle, The Fly

"Is 52:1. strength as thy adornment; answering to beautiful garments in the parallel clause. Arouse thyself from dejection and assume confidence.

the holy city (Ne 11:1; Rev 21:2).

no more unclean (Is 35:8; 60:21; Joe 3:17; Rev 21:27). A prophecy never yet fulfilled.

uncircumcised spiritually (Ez 44:9; Ac 7:51)." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 1, p. 489). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

How could God have a hell and we not consider that hell as more powerful than him? After all, if the Christian hell were true, then it will have stolen millions of humans from God. It would force God to herd humans into a cattle like place and punish them for not being righteous enough; for not being saved by Christ.

God is the creator (Is. 40:28). Hell is his creation (Matt. 25:41). You disrespect him (Rom. 1:25).

Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it (Mt 7:1314).

"Responsibility accountability for ones actions:

Shifting of, by: blaming another (Gen. 3:12), claiming innocency (Matt. 27:24), blaming a people (Ex. 32:2124)...

Is increased by: sight (John 9:3941), privilege (John 15:22, 24), opportunity (Matt. 11:2024), continuance in sin (Matt. 23:3135), rejection (Matt. 10:1115). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelsons quick reference topical Bible index (p. 529). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

How could a human mind stay sane after being continually punished for 77 million years straight? How could a human survive after being tortured for 9 billion years in a row? Why would God punish me for 100 trillion years , and then keep doing it?

You're already evil--but we ain't seen nothin' yet.

"Sinners who go to hell never repent...They continue to rebel. Every description of hell indicates to us that it is...not a remedial experience. It is not remedial justice. It is retributive justice. They remain God-haters forever so that the punishment never catches up with the sin...

In hell they continue to hate God. In hell they continue to curse God. In hell they continue to mock God and blaspheme God and hate Christ. So the punishment never catches up to the sin because the sinning never, ever, ever ceases....

...People don't go to hell and then never sin forever and just get punished forever. They go to hell and keep on sinning forever, so the punishment can never catch up with the wretchedness. That is why the Bible in Mark 3 describes this as eternal sin...as eternal sin.

...I believe that sinners are more sinful in hell than they were on earth because their sin on earth is mitigated to some degree, necessarily mitigated. Everybody cant be as wicked as he would choose to be here because there are consequences. There are restraints. There are expectations. But in hell, there are none. Everybody is as evil as he can be..." Full text: The Truth About Hell by John MacArthur

"Why would God punish me for ten thousand years, then cause me to hurt for another 82 thousand years, because I am a sinner? Just because I don't believe in God, why would he hurt me for 444 million years, then punish me another 852 billion years, and then keep hurting me for another 7 thousand years, and then not stop, but actually cause me pain for another 299 trillion years, then hurt me another 4 thousand years, and then tell me its never ever going to end, just because I rejected him for 70 human years."

You fail to come to him his way (Pr 14:12).

"This is how psycho Christians want us to believe God is."

Tell him that to his face (Phil 2:10).

Mickiel

Why would God punish me ...

ok doser

because you're an obsessive retard?

Mickiel

Because you have insulted my personage like this, I will no longer respond to you.

"You have made me very angry ~ Marvin Martian

In Revelations [sic] 21:4 God reveals there will be no Christian hell.

We go to heaven (2 Tim. 4:8).

You go to hell (2 Thess. 1:610, Matt. 13:3643).

You've been warned (2 Cor. 5:10, 11).

"Re 21:4 wipe away every tear. Since there will never be a tear in heaven, nothing will be sad, disappointing, deficient, or wrong (cf. Is. 53:4, 5; 1 Cor. 15:5457).
21:5 true and faithful. Cf. 3:14; 19:11. God always speaks truth (John 17:17).
21:6 the Alpha and the Omega. See note on 1:8. water of life. Cf. 7:17; 22:1, 17. The lasting spiritual water of which Jesus spoke (John 4:13, 14; 7:37, 38; cf. Is. 55:1, 2). him who thirsts. Heaven belongs to those who, knowing their souls are parched by sin, have earnestly sought the satisfaction of salvation and eternal life (cf. Ps. 42:1, 2; Is. 55:1, 2; John 7:37, 38).
21:7 He who overcomes. Cf. 1 John 5:4, 5. Anyone who exercises saving faith in Jesus Christ (see note on 2:7). inherit. The spiritual inheritance all believers will receive (1 Pet. 1:4; cf. Matt. 25:23) is the fullness of the new creation. Cf. Rom. 8:16, 17.
21:8 A solemn, serious warning about the kinds of people who will be outcasts from the new heaven and the new earth in the lake of fire. The NT often goes beyond just citing unbelief in listing character and lifestyle traits of the outcast, so that believers can identify such people (1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Gal. 5:19; cf. John 8:31). sorcerers. See note on 9:21. lake which burns with fire. See note on 19:20. brimstone. See note on 9:17. second death. See note on 20:6." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., pp. 20222023). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

Lon

"I don't want to be a slave to that God!" ~ Mickiel

I know Mikiel, I know. Job 13:15

"I'd rather serve a made-up God who is kinder than that, if that is the way God really is!" ~ Krsto

I know Krsto, I know. Habakkuk 2:18

Mickiel

Why would God need a hell, when his salvation grows like a tree?
"Ps 1:3 He shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that brings forth its fruit in its season, whose leaf also shall not wither; and whatever he does shall prosper.

God loves to bless His obedient children. He moves out ahead of them, preparing the way, bringing them into a good and pleasant place. He doesn't promise lack of trials, but He does promise eventual victory." Stanley, C. F. (2005). The Charles F. Stanley life principles Bible: New King James Version (Ps 1:3). Nashville, TN: Nelson Bibles.

Hawkins

...If this is your declaration in public and it turns out that your are wrong (as a human you are subject to mistakes), then those who believe what you advocate here will be in hell. You will be the soul murderer leading to their very death.

Mickiel

You are not listing my reasoning, your simply listing yours. I gave the scriptures, I gave my reasoning deduced from scripture.

...[I]t's not my reasoning.

2 Cor. 11:13, 14, 1 John 4:16, 1 Tim. 4:1

...[T]hey are teaching that people are stupid enough to freely submit to eternal torture. And that God is rewarding their stupidity...

Stupidity

evil

There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich mans table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abrahams bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Then he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.

Then he said, I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my fathers house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment. Abraham said to him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent. But he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead. Lk 16:1931

Mickiel

... Now its a people taught thing...

ok doser

Aren't you a people?

Mickiel

...[M]ost modern versions does not use the term " Condemn" in John 3:18, they use " Judge...

John 3:18

Is not judged (οὐ κρινεται [ou krinetai]). Present passive indicative. Trust in Christ prevents condemnation, for he takes our place and pays the penalty for sin for all who put their case in his hands (Rom. 8:32f.). The believer in Christ as Saviour does not come into judgment (John 5:24). Hath been judged already (ἠδη κεκριται [ēdē kekritai]). Perfect passive indicative of κρινω [krinō]. Judgment has already been passed on the one who refuses to believe in Christ as the Saviour sent by the Father, the man who is not willing to come to Christ for life (5:40). Because he hath not believed (ὁτι μη πεπιστευκεν [hoti mē pepisteuken]). Perfect active indicative of πιστευω [pisteuō], has taken a permanent attitude of refusal. Here ὁτι μη [hoti mē] states the reason subjectively as the judgment of the Judge in any such case (ὁ μη πιστευων [ho mē pisteuōn] already mentioned) while in 1 John 5:10 ὁτι οὐ πεπιστευκεν [hoti ou pepisteuken] gives the reason objectively (οὐ [ou] instead of μη [mē]) conceived as an actual case and no longer hypothetical. See 1:12 for εἰς το ὀνομα [eis to onoma] with πιστευω [pisteuō] (believing on the name) and 1:14 for μονογενους [monogenous] (only begotten) and also 3:16. Robertson, A. T. (1933). Word Pictures in the New Testament (Jn 3:18). Nashville, TN: Broadman Press.

[John 5:39]

"Jn 5:39. Search the scriptures. In the Scriptures ye find your charter of eternal life; go search them then, and you will find that I am the Great Burden of their testimony; yet ye will not come to Me for that life eternal which you profess to find there, and of which they tell you I am the appointed Dispenser. (Compare Ac 17:11, 12). How touching and gracious are these last words! Observe here (1) The honor which Christ gives to the Scriptures, as a record which all have a right and are bound to search the reverse of which the Church of Rome teaches; (2) The opposite extreme is, resting in the mere Book without the living Christ, to direct the soul to whom is its main use and chiefest glory." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 137). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

A Praise of David.

I will extol You, my God, O King; And I will bless Your name forever and ever.
Every day I will bless You,
And I will praise Your name forever and ever.
Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised;
And His greatness is unsearchable.

One generation shall praise Your works to another,
And shall declare Your mighty acts.
I will meditate on the glorious splendor of Your majesty,
And on Your wondrous works.
Men shall speak of the might of Your awesome acts,
And I will declare Your greatness.
They shall utter the memory of Your great goodness,
And shall sing of Your righteousness.

The Lord is gracious and full of compassion,
Slow to anger and great in mercy.
The Lord is good to all,
And His tender mercies are over all His works.

All Your works shall praise You, O Lord,
And Your saints shall bless You.
They shall speak of the glory of Your kingdom,
And talk of Your power,
To make known to the sons of men His mighty acts,
And the glorious majesty of His kingdom.
Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And Your dominion endures throughout all generations.

The Lord upholds all who fall,
And raises up all who are bowed down.
The eyes of all look expectantly to You,
And You give them their food in due season.
You open Your hand
And satisfy the desire of every living thing.

The Lord is righteous in all His ways,
Gracious in all His works.
The Lord is near to all who call upon Him,
To all who call upon Him in truth.
He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him;
He also will hear their cry and save them.
The Lord preserves all who love Him,
But all the wicked He will destroy.
My mouth shall speak the praise of the Lord,
And all flesh shall bless His holy name
Forever and ever. Ps 145

"While we sin, right now sinning; all who are sinning and all who have ever sinned, Jesus death applies to you and your sins are covered, past, present and future; Romans 5:8. This is the gospel; and its hope for unbelievers."

[Ro 5:8]

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us [Rom. 5:8].

"He died for you and me. That is where God revealed His love. And God doesn't save us by love. He now saves us by grace because the guilt of sin has been removed by the death of Christ, and He can hold out His arms and save you today." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (Romans 1-8) (electronic ed., Vol. 42, pp. 9394). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Why would God have an eternal hell, and warn absolutely nobody in the Old Testament about it?

Ge 2:17

"It's just too bad that certain believers cannot hog heaven to themselves..."

Do not keep silent,
O God of my praise!
For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful
Have opened against me;
They have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
They have also surrounded me with words of hatred,
And fought against me without a cause.
In return for my love they are my accusers,
But I give myself to prayer.
Thus they have rewarded me evil for good,
And hatred for my love.

Set a wicked man over him,
And let an accuser stand at his right hand.
When he is judged, let him be found guilty,
And let his prayer become sin.
Let his days be few,
And let another take his office.
Let his children be fatherless,
And his wife a widow.
Let his children continually be vagabonds, and beg;
Let them seek their bread also from their desolate places.
Let the creditor seize all that he has,
And let strangers plunder his labor.
Let there be none to extend mercy to him,
Nor let there be any to favor his fatherless children.
Let his posterity be cut off,
And in the generation following let their name be blotted out.

Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the Lord,
And let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
Let them be continually before the Lord,
That He may cut off the memory of them from the earth;
Because he did not remember to show mercy,
But persecuted the poor and needy man,
That he might even slay the broken in heart.
As he loved cursing, so let it come to him;
As he did not delight in blessing, so let it be far from him.
As he clothed himself with cursing as with his garment,
So let it enter his body like water,
And like oil into his bones.
Let it be to him like the garment which covers him,
And for a belt with which he girds himself continually.
Let this be the Lords reward to my accusers,
And to those who speak evil against my person.

But You, O God the Lord,
Deal with me for Your names sake;
Because Your mercy is good, deliver me.
For I am poor and needy,
And my heart is wounded within me.
I am gone like a shadow when it lengthens;
I am shaken off like a locust.
My knees are weak through fasting,
And my flesh is feeble from lack of fatness.
I also have become a reproach to them;
When they look at me, they shake their heads.

Help me, O Lord my God!
Oh, save me according to Your mercy,
That they may know that this is Your hand
That You, Lord, have done it!
Let them curse, but You bless;
When they arise, let them be ashamed,
But let Your servant rejoice.
Let my accusers be clothed with shame,
And let them cover themselves with their own disgrace as with a mantle.

I will greatly praise the Lord with my mouth;
Yes, I will praise Him among the multitude.
For He shall stand at the right hand of the poor,
To save him from those who condemn him. Ps 109:131

"...[W]hile they preach hell and damnation; Joel 2:28, " And it shall come to past [sic] that I will pour my spirit out on all flesh!" Whoop there it is again, the awesome inclusion of salvation and the exclusion of the Christian hell."

"Joel 28. afterward in the last days (Is 2:2) under Messiah after the invasion and deliverance of Israel from the northern army. Having heretofore stated the outward blessings, he now raises their minds to the expectation of extraordinary spiritual blessings, which constitute the true restoration of Gods people (Is 44:3). Fulfilled in earnest (Ac 2:17) on Pentecost; among the Jews and the subsequent election of a people among the Gentiles; hereafter more fully at the restoration of Israel (Is 54:13; Je 31:9, 34; Ez 39:29; Zec 12:10) and the consequent conversion of the whole world (Is 2:2; 11:9; 66:1823; Mic 5:7; Ro 11:12, 15). As the Jews have been the seed men of the elect Church gathered out of Jews and Gentiles, the first Gospel preachers being Jews from Jerusalem, so they shall be the harvest men of the coming world-wide Church, to be set up at Messiahs appearing. That the promise is not restricted to the first Pentecost appears from Peters own words: The promise is (not only) unto you and to your children, (but also) to all that are afar off (both in space and in time), even as many as the Lord our God shall call (Ac 2:39). So here upon all flesh.

I will pour out under the new covenant: not merely, let fall drops, as under the Old Testament (Jn 7:39).

my spirit the Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son, and at the same time one with the Father and the Son (compare Is 11:2).

sons daughters old young not merely on a privileged few (Nu 11:29) as the prophets of the Old Testament, but men of all ages and ranks. See Ac 21:9; 1 Co 11:5, as to daughters, that is, women, prophesying.

dreams visions(Ac 9:10; 16:9). The dreams are attributed to the old men, as more in accordance with their years; visions to the young men, as adapted to their more lively minds. The three modes whereby God revealed His will under the Old Testament (Nu 12:6), prophecy, dreams, and visions, are here made the symbol of the full manifestation of Himself to all His people, not only in miraculous gifts to some, but by His indwelling Spirit to all in the New Testament (Jn 14:21, 23; 15:15). In Ac 16:9; 18:9, the term used is vision, though in the night, not a dream. No other dream is mentioned in the New Testament save those given to Joseph in the very beginning of the New Testament, before the full Gospel had come; and to the wife of Pilate, a Gentile (Mt 1:20; 2:13; 27:19). Prophesying in the New Testament is applied to all speaking under the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit, and not merely to foretelling events. All true Christians are priests and ministers of our God (Is 61:6), and have the Spirit (Ez 36:26, 27). Besides this, probably, a special gift of prophecy and miracle-working is to be given at or before Messiahs coming again." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 1, pp. 666667). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Mickiel

You dispose of sin, not people...

ok doser

[John 5:29]

And he thought he could escape the punishment.

Lk 3:7

Mickiel

...Phil. 2:10... they are destined to confess in Christ and be converted by God...

"Phil 2:10. at the name rather as Greek, in the name.

bow rather, bend, in token of worship. Referring to Is 45:23; quoted also in Ro 14:11. To worship in the name of Jesus, is to worship Jesus Himself (compare Php 2:11; Pr 18:10), or God in Christ (Jn 16:23; Eph 3:14). Compare Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord (that is, whosoever shall call on the Lord in His revealed character) shall be saved (Ro 10:13; 1 Co 1:2); all that call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord (compare 2 Ti 2:22); call on the Lord; Ac 7:59, calling upon ¦ and saying, Lord Jesus (Ac 9:14, 21; 22:16)." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 364). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"Why would God need a hell, when all nations are predestined to be blessed by God..."

Mt 25:31-46

"...Gal.3:8. Everyone is going to get in on this great salvation."

"Ga 3:8 Scripture, foreseeing. Personifying the Scriptures was a common Jewish figure of speech (cf. 4:30; John 7:38, 42; 19:37; Rom. 9:17; 10:11; 11:2; 1 Tim. 5:18). Because Scripture is Gods Word, when it speaks, God speaks. preached the gospel to Abraham. The good news to Abraham was the news of salvation for all the nations (quoted from Gen. 12:3; 18:18). See Gen. 22:18; John 8:56; Acts 26:22, 23. Salvation has always, in every age, been by faith." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1792). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

Hey...

Is 55:1 NET

[1 John 4:14]

Ad infinitum Eph 4:14

"Jude 1:21 ...Don't just look for mercy for yourself, but for everyone."

Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life [Jude 21].

"This verse gives us two more things we as believers are to do in days of apostasy.

...Keep yourselves in the love of God. We need to recognize that God loves the believer. We have seen that Jude addresses the believers as beloved. Let me repeat this does not imply that he loves them or that they love him but that they are beloved of God. Again, let me say that you cannot keep God from loving you, although you can put up an umbrella or a roof so that you will not feel the warmth of Gods love. Jude is saying, Keep yourselves out there in the sunshine of Gods love. Let His love flood your heart and life. This is needed in days of apostasy..." McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed., Vol. 5, pp. 873874). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Profile of an Apostate

1. Ungodly (v. 4)
2. Morally perverted (v. 4)
3. Deny Christ (v. 4)
4. Defile the flesh (v. 8)
5. Rebellious (v. 8)
6. Revile holy angels (v. 8)
7. Dreamers (v. 10)
8. Ignorant (v. 10)
9. Corrupted (v. 10)
10. Grumblers (v. 16)
11. Fault finders (v. 16)
12. Self seeking (v. 16)
13. Arrogant speakers (v. 16)
14. Flatterers (v. 16)
15. Mockers (v. 18)
16. Cause division (v. 19)
17. Worldly minded (v. 19)
18. Without the Spirit (v. 19) MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1988). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

When men set up hell...

Eph 4:14

See:

Hell

"When believers in God talk more about hell than they do heaven, they have lost their savor; Matt. 5:13; they have lost their first love..."

"Mt 5:13. We have here the practical application of the foregoing principles to those disciples who sat listening to them, and to their successors in all time. Our Lord, though He began by pronouncing certain characters to be blessed without express reference to any of His hearers does not close the beatitudes without intimating that such characters were in existence, and that already they were before Him. Accordingly, from characters He comes to persons possessing them, saying, Blessed are ye when men shall revile you, &c. (Mt 5:11). And now, continuing this mode of direct personal address, He startles those humble, unknown men by pronouncing them the exalted benefactors of their whole species.

Ye are the salt of the earth to preserve it from corruption, to season its insipidity, to freshen and sweeten it. The value of salt for these purposes is abundantly referred to by classical writers as well as in Scripture; and hence its symbolical significance in the religious offerings as well of those without as of those within the pale of revealed religion. In Scripture, mankind, under the unrestrained workings of their own evil nature, are represented as entirely corrupt. Thus, before the flood (Ge 6:11, 12); after the flood (Ge 8:21); in the days of David (Ps 14:2, 3); in the days of Isaiah (Is 1:5, 6); and in the days of Paul (Eph 2:13; see also Job 14:4; Jn 3:6; compared with Ro 8:8; Tit 3:2, 3). The remedy for this, says our Lord here, is the active presence of His disciples among their fellows. The character and principles of Christians, brought into close contact with it, are designed to arrest the festering corruption of humanity and season its insipidity. But how, it may be asked, are Christians to do this office for their fellow men, if their righteousness only exasperate them, and recoil, in every form of persecution, upon themselves? The answer is: That is but the first and partial effect of their Christianity upon the world: though the great proportion would dislike and reject the truth, a small but noble band would receive and hold it fast; and in the struggle that would ensue, one and another even of the opposing party would come over to His ranks, and at length the Gospel would carry all before it.

but if the salt have lost his savior become unsavory or insipid; losing its saline or salting property. The meaning is: If that Christianity on which the health of the world depends, does in any age, region, or individual, exist only in name, or if it contain not those saving elements for want of which the world languishes,

wherewith shall it be salted? How shall the salting qualities be restored it? (Compare Mk 9:50). Whether salt ever does lose its saline property about which there is a difference of opinion is a question of no moment here. The point of the case lies in the supposition that if it should lose it, the consequence would be as here described. So with Christians. The question is not: Can, or do, the saints ever totally lose that grace which makes them a blessing to their fellow men? But, What is to be the issue of that Christianity which is found wanting in those elements which can alone stay the corruption and season the tastelessness of an all pervading carnality? The restoration or non-restoration of grace, or true living Christianity, to those who have lost it, has, in our judgment, nothing at all to do here. The question is not, If a man lose his grace, how shall that grace be restored to him? but, Since living Christianity is the only salt of the earth, if men lose that, what else can supply its place? What follows is the appalling answer to this question.

it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast outa figurative expression of indignant exclusion from the kingdom of God (compare Mt 8:12; 22:13; Jn 6:37; 9:34).

and to be trodden under foot of men expressive of contempt and scorn. It is not the mere want of a certain character, but the want of it in those whose profession and appearance were fitted to beget expectation of finding it." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, pp. 1920). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"James 2:13...People who show no mercy, they ought not receive it themselves."

"Jas 2:13 A person who shows no mercy and compassion for people in need demonstrates that he has never responded to the great mercy of God, and as an unredeemed person will receive only strict, unrelieved judgment in eternal hell (cf. Matt. 5:7). Mercy triumphs over judgment. The person whose life is characterized by mercy is ready for the day of judgment, and will escape all the charges that strict justice might bring against him because by showing mercy to others he gives genuine evidence of having received Gods mercy." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1929). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

LightSon

...Would God be just in offering salvation through Christ to a lost person after they have died physically?

Heb 9:27

Mickiel

Romans 5:1 [T]here will come a time that the whole world will be justified by faith and be at peace with God...

"Ro 5:1 having been justified. The Gr. construction and its Eng. translation underscores that justification is a one-time legal declaration with continuing results (see note on 3:24), not an ongoing process. peace with God. Not a subjective, internal sense of calm and serenity, but an external, objective reality. God has declared Himself to be at war with every human being because of mans sinful rebellion against Him and His laws (v. 10; cf. 1:18; 8:7; Ex. 22:24; Deut. 32:21, 22; Ps. 7:11; John 3:36; Eph. 5:6). But the first great result of justification is that the sinners war with God is ended forever (Col. 1:21, 22). Scripture refers to the end of this conflict as a persons being reconciled to God (vv. 10, 11; 2 Cor. 5:1820)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1700). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

[Rom. 5:18-19]

Ad infinitum Eph 4:14

Why would God need a hell, when all flesh shall see him? Luke 3:6.

"Lk 3:6 all flesh. I.e., Gentiles as well as Jews (see note on 2:31). All 4 gospels quote Is. 40:3 (Matt. 3:3; Mark 1:3; John 1:23). Only Luke adds vv. 5, 6thus using a familiar text from Isaiah to stress his theme of the universal scope of the gospel..." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1517). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

God is making known his salvation, Ps. 98:1. He is getting his truth out there. All of us will see his salvation...

"Ps 98:1. gotten victory literally, made salvation, enabled Him to save His people.

right hand, and arm denote power.

holy armor, arm of holiness, the power of His united moral perfections (Ps 22:3; 32:11)." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 1, p. 375). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"2 Pet. 3:18...[W]e don't need the Christian hell, we have a constant growing grace of God."

"2 Pe 3:18. grow. Not only do not fall from (2 Pe 3:17), but grow onward: the true secret of not going backward. Eph 4:15, Grow up into Him, the Head, Christ." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 523). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"...[T]hey seek to populate their hell...2 Corinth.5:19..."

"2 Co 5:19. God was in Christ, reconciling that is, God was BY Christ (in virtue of Christ's intervention) reconciling, &c. Was reconciling implies the time when the act of reconciliation was being carried into effect (2 Co 5:21), namely, when God made Jesus, who knew no sin, to be sin for us. The compound of was and the participle reconciling, instead of the imperfect (Greek), may also imply the continuous purpose of God, from before the foundation of the world, to reconcile man to Himself, whose fall was foreseen. The expression IN Christ for by Christ may be used to imply additionally that God was IN Christ (Jn 10:38; 14:10), and so by Christ (the God-man) was reconciling ¦ The Greek for by or through Christ (the best manuscripts omit Jesus), 2 Co 5:18, is different. In must mean here in the person of Christ. The Greek Katallasson implies changing or altering the judicial status from one of condemnation to one of justification. The atonement (at-one-ment), or reconciliation, is the removal of the bar to peace and acceptance with a holy God, which His righteousness interposed against our sin. The first step towards restoring peace between us and God was on Gods side (Jn 3:16). The change therefore now to be effected must be on the part of offending man, God the offended One being already reconciled. It is man, not God, who now needs to be reconciled, and to lay aside his enmity against God (Ro 5:10, 11). (We have received the atonement [Greek, reconciliation], cannot mean We have received the laying aside of our own enmity). Compare Ro 3:24, 25." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 309). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"Matt. 1:21 the angel said that Jesus would " save his people from their sins." All have sinned and that same all is saved!"

"...for he shall save The He is here emphatic He it is that shall save; He personally, and by personal acts (as WEBSTER and WILKINSON express it).

his people the lost sheep of the house of Israel, in the first instance; for they were the only people He then had. But, on the breaking down of the middle wall of partition, the saved people embraced the redeemed unto God by His blood out of every kindred and people and tongue and nation.

from their sins in the most comprehensive sense of salvation from sin (Rev 1:5; Eph 5:2527)." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 6). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

chrysostom

You have to repent...

He always seems to leave that part out.

Divine judgment is avoided by: turning to God (Deut. 30:13), turning from sin (Jer. 7:37), humiliation (Jon. 1:117), prayer (2 Kin. 19:1436; 2 Chr. 20:530). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelsons quick reference topical Bible index (p. 357). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

...Rev. 13:8...God decided before any religion was, that we be saved.

"Re 13:8 Book of Life....The Lord Jesus who died to purchase the salvation of those whom God had chosen was fulfilling an eternal plan. from the foundation of the world." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 2010). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

"What is Babylon the Great? I think its Apostate Christianity, Rev. 18:2..."

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird [Rev. 18:2].

"And he shouted with a mighty voice, saying, Fell, fell is Babylon the great, and became a habitation of demons, and a prison (hold, cage) of every unclean spirit, and a prison (hold, cage) of every unclean and hated bird.

The preliminary announcement of the fall of Babylon was made in Revelation 14:8: And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. The angel here is greater in authority than the one who made that first announcement.

In the words, Fell, fell is Babylon ¦ and became, the tense in the Greek is prophetic aorist which speaks of coming events as if they have already transpired. When God says something is going to happen, you can speak about it as though it had already happened, because it is going to happen. It is just that sure. In Gods plan and program it is just as though it had already taken place because He knows the end from the beginning. Babylon, this great commercial center of the world, is going to be destroyed.

A habitation of demons, and a cage of every unclean spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hated bird. This indicates that Babylon is where demons of the spirit world and unclean birds of the physical world will be incarcerated during the Millennium. The prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah confirm this (see Isa. 13:1922; Jer. 50:3840). These prophecies find a final fulfillment in the destruction of literal Babylon here in Revelation 18. If this is true, there is no prophecy which forbids Babylon from being rebuilt. Babylon is the headquarters of demons and has been the place of rebellion down through the years." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Prophecy (Revelation 14-22) (electronic ed., Vol. 60, pp. 104105). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Why would God need a hell, when death and hell were cast into the lake of fire, Rev. 20:14.

"Re 20:14. Death and Hades, as personified representatives of the enemies of Christ and His Church, are said to be cast into the lake of fire to express the truth that Christ and His people shall never more die, or be in the state of disembodied spirits.

This is the second death the lake of fire is added in A, B, and ANDREAS. English Version, which omits the clause, rests on inferior manuscripts. In hell the ancient form of death, which was one of the enemies destroyed by Christ, shall not continue, but a death of a far different kind reigns there, everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord: an abiding testimony of the victory of Christ." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 600). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Why would God need a hell, when he needs no other Christian myths either?

Eph 4:14

See:

Hell

The doctrine of eternal hell punishing gives place to the devil, Eph. 4:27.

Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Neither give place to the devil [Eph. 4:2527].

Paul returns to the prohibitions which he began in verse 17. The believer is told to walk no longer as the Gentiles walk. These injunctions continue through the remainder of the epistle.
Speak every man truth is the injunction that leads all the rest. When the old man was put off in the crucifixion of Christ, the lying tongue and deceitful heart were put on the cross. One of the reasons Jesus had to die for us was because you and I are liars. We ought always speak the truth. David said, I said in my haste, All men are liars (Ps. 116:11). I remember hearing Dr. W. I. Carroll quote this years ago. He pointed out that David said he thought this in his haste. Dr. Carroll remarked, Ive had a long time to think it over, and I still agree with David.
Speaking the truth would resolve most of the problems in the average church. Long ago I gave up the idea of trying to straighten out all of the lies that I hear in Christian circles. I found out that I could spend all my time doing that. Since believers are members of one body, speaking the truth is imperative.
Chrysostom drew this ridiculous analogy but it does illustrate the truth:

Let not the eye lie to the foot, nor the foot to the eye. If there be a deep pit and its mouth covered with reeds shall present to the eye the appearance of solid ground, will not the eye use the foot to ascertain whether it is hollow underneath, or whether it is firm and resists? Will the foot tell a lie, and not the truth as it is? And what, again, if the eye were to spy a serpent or a wild beast, will it lie to the foot?

The feet wouldn't deceive the eyes because they are members of the same body. Neither would the eye deceive the feet. So in the church there ought to be honesty and truth among the members.
Be ye angry, and sin not. The believer is commanded to be angered with certain conditions and with certain people. There seems to be an idea today that a Christian is one who is a blah, that he is sweet under all circumstances and conditions. Will you hear me carefully? No believer can be neutral in the battle of truth. He should hate the lying and gossiping tongue, especially of another Christian. However, we should not hate or loathe the person with an innate hatred or malice, as Peter calls it. Malice is something that should not be in the life of the believer. Wherefore laying aside all malice ¦ (1 Pet. 2:1). Malice has been described as congealed anger. When the wrong is corrected, there should be no animosity. Forgive and forget is the principle. Harboring hatred and sinful feelings gives the Devil an advantage in our lives. Many people have certain hang-ups. They hate certain people they cant get over it and cant forgive. My friend, we should forgive and forget if the person is willing to give up his lying.
The Lord Jesus showed anger. He went into the synagogue, and there was a man with a withered hand. What angered Him was that the Pharisees had planted that man there just to see what He would do. And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other (Mark 3:5). Our Lord was angry at the Pharisees for doing such a thing. Also we are told that God is angry all day long with the wicked, but that the minute they give up their wickedness and turn to Him, He will save them. That should be the attitude of the believer.
I heard of a custodian who had remained in a church which had had lots of problems. There was trouble, bitterness, hatred, and little cliques in the church. They had had one pastor after another, but the custodian remained through the years. A visitor who knew about the church asked him how he had been able to stay so long under such circumstances. He replied, I just get into neutral and let them push me around. A great many people think that that is being a Christian. May I say to you that no Christian can be neutral. We are in a great battle, as we shall see later in this epistle. McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed., Vol. 5, pp. 258259). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Ps. 136:16 this means the mercy of God is eternal, that totally cancels out this Christian place of garbage.

How many Christians have you treated like garbage?

1 Thess. 2:15; Rev. 12:13

"Because of his relationship to Israel (136:1024)
He performed miracles to get his people out of Egypt (136:1016).
He brought his people into Canaan (136:1724): He struck down the foreign kings and gave the land to Israel." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Ps 136:1025). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

I just want to see the look on all the righteous faces when God forgives all unbelievers and those who reject him. When God shows his followers how he really is and they are not.

Pr 14:12

...Luke 12:49...[H]ere he meant fire as division.

"Luke 12:49...here he meant fire as " Division." 12:49 fire. I.e., judgment. See note on Matt. 3:11. For the connection between fire and judgment, see Is. 66:15; Joel 2:30; Amos 1:7, 1014; 2:2, 5; Mal. 3:2, 5; 1 Cor. 3:13; 2 Thess. 1:7, 8." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1540). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

All who live, live unto God, Luke 20:38; you can't live in some Christian hell and be living unto God.

You die a second death (Re 20:14).

"There is a resurrection (20:3740)." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Lk 20:3440). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

Crucible

The lacking belief of Hell, and preaching of it thereof, is a large reason why Christianity has become so lukewarm in a lot of society.

People barely live up to the standards of Christianity even in the most conservative and traditional of circles. We live in a world that has exponentially more vanity and distraction, abominable liberties, and 'easy' belief of God that Christianity is merely a vestige of what it was just a couple hundred years ago.

Hell deniers are products of this age, where all things God are adulterated with worldly ideology.

They think God's a big ol' softie who will let them in at the last minute (Hab 2:18).

Mickiel

People think God has no power to save a disobedient unbelieving mind; how wrong they are, God " Quickens" all things, 1 Tim. 6:13. That means God can " Arouse" any unbelieving mind and stimulate it to belief.

"1 Ti 6:13. quickeneth all things that is, maketh alive. But the oldest manuscripts read, preserveth alive; as the same Greek means in Ac 7:19; compare Ne 9:6. He urges Timothy to faithfulness here by the present manifestation of Gods power in preserving all things, as in 1 Ti 6:14, by the future manifestation of Gods power at the appearing of Christ. The assurance that eternal life, 1 Ti 6:12, will be the result of fighting the good fight, rests on the fullness and power of Him who is the God of all life, present and to come." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 418). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

In Heb.7:25 Jesus is able to " Save to the uttermost"...There will be no need for the Christian hell.

"Heb 7:25. Wherefore Greek, Whence; inasmuch as He remaineth for ever.

also as a natural consequence flowing from the last, at the same time a new and higher thing [ALFORD].

save His very name JESUS (Heb 7:22) meaning Saviour.

to the uttermost altogether, perfectly, so that nothing should be wanting afterwards for ever [TITTMANN]. It means in any wise, utterly, in Lu 13:11.

come unto God by faith." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 458). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"There is such a thing as forced love, In Rev. 8:7-13 all the force used here by God is because of love."

Mt 10:28

"II. Events Accompanying the Trumpet Blowing (Re 8:613)
A. First trumpet (8:67): One-third of the trees and grass are burned by hail and fire mixed with blood.
B. Second trumpet (8:89): One-third of the marine life and ships are destroyed by a burning object that falls into the waters.
C. Third trumpet (8:1011): One-third of the fresh waters are poisoned, killing many people by a falling object known as Bitterness.
D. Fourth trumpet (8:1213)
1. The action (8:12) : One third of the sun, moon, and stars are darkened.
2. The aftermath (8:13) : A flying eagle now warns the earth in regard to the final three trumpet judgments." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Re 8:513). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

"In Rev.9:18 God kills one third of humanity on earth, stunning force that will lead to love."

"B. The horror of these demons (9:1619)
1. Their number (9:16) : The army numbers 200 million warriors.
2. Their nature (9:1719): They have the appearance of horses and riders.
a. The horses have heads like lions and tails like deadly serpents, and they breathe out smoke and flaming sulphur (9:17b19).
b. The riders wear brightly colored breastplates (9:17a).
B. The reaction (9:2021): How do the survivors of this horrible invasion respond after witnessing the death of untold millions?
1. They refuse to repent (9:20a).
2. They continue to rebel (9:20b21)." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Re 9:1521). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

Praise God...

2 Co 11:14

...[T]here will be no Christian hell. In Heb.8:12 "I will be merciful to their unrighteousness and their sins I will not remember any more!" The Christian hell is a myth.

"Heb 8:12. For the third of the better promises (Heb 8:6). The forgiveness of sins is, and will be, the root of this new state of inward grace and knowledge of the Lord. Sin being abolished, sinners obtain grace.

I will be merciful Greek, propitious; the Hebrew, salach, is always used of God only in relation to men.

and their iniquities not found in Vulgate, Syriac, Coptic, and one oldest Greek manuscript; but most oldest manuscripts have the words (compare Heb 10:17).

remember no more Contrast the law, Heb 10:3." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 460). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

This is how the real God is, he does not ask humans if they want his gifts; he just gives it...

Acts 16:30-34

The Love of God is much like the life from God; none of us were asked if we want to live...

Jn 5:6

Why would God need a hell, when all he has to do is destroy religious dogma.

Why would Jesus promise the thief on the cross that he would see him that day in paradise

but not the other guy?

Lk 23:43

In John 3:16...that love will not exclude unbelievers from being with God...

Mk 16:16

ok doser

will be condemned, apparently, to eternal salvation

Likes to play fast and loose with the scriptures, doesn't he? Rev. 22:18-20

[John 17:2]

Ad infinitum Eph 4:14

...he is responsible for us all.

You are responsible to him (John 3:18-20).

[G]reedy selfish religions...John 6:39

"Jn 6:39. And this in the first place.

is the will of Him that sent me, that of all everything.

which He hath given Me(taking up the identical words of Jn 6:37).

I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day The meaning is not, of course, that He is charged to keep the objects entrusted to Him as He received them, so as they should merely suffer nothing in His hands. For as they were just perishing sinners of Adams family, to let nothing of such be lost, but raise them up at the last day, must involve, first, giving His flesh for them (Jn 6:51), that they might not perish, but have everlasting life; and then, after keeping them from falling, raising their sleeping dust in incorruption and glory, and presenting them, body and soul, perfect and entire, wanting nothing, to Him who gave them to Him, saying, Behold I and the children which God hath given Me. So much for the first will of Him that sent Him, the divine side of mans salvation, whose every stage and movement is inscrutable to us, but infallibly certain." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 139). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

John 8:32...Knowing the truth about hell frees the conscious mind, it heals the conscious belief.

Jn 3:36

Life is not a free will choice...

Ge 2:17

...John 8:42 ...he [Jesus] was "birthed by God"...

"Jn 8:42, 43. If God were your Father, ye would love me. If ye had anything of His moral image, as children have their fathers likeness, ye would love Me, for I am immediately of Him and directly from Him. But My speech (meaning His peculiar style of expressing Himself on these subjects) is unintelligible to you because ye cannot take in the truth which it conveys..." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 144). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

...John 5:26..Jesus was not always alive!

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man [John 5:2627].

"The Lord Jesus is a life giver, you see. Not only does He have life, but He gives life. He also has the right to execute judgment. He came the first time as the Savior and not to judge, but He is coming the next time as the Judge. At that time, those in the graves will hear His voice." McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed., Vol. 4, p. 398). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

In Romans 5:6 the bible is clear that Christ died for the ungodly, or the unbeliever, this is why they are saved.

"Ro 5:6. For when we were yet without strength that is, powerless to deliver ourselves, and so ready to perish.

in due time eat the appointed season.

Christ died for the ungodly. Three signal properties of Gods love are here given: First, Christ died for the ungodly, whose character, so far from meriting any interposition in their behalf, was altogether repulsive to the eye of God; second, He did this when they were without strength with nothing between them and perdition but that self-originating divine compassion; third, He did this at the due time, when it was most fitting that it should take place (compare Ga 4:4), The two former of these properties the apostle now proceeds to illustrate." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 231). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Rom. 3:9...shame on religion for barking against unbelievers.

"Ro 3:9. are we better than they? do we excel them?

No, in no wise. Better off the Jews certainly were, for having the oracles of God to teach them better; but as they were no better, that only aggravated their guilt." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 227). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

patrick jane

Oh Serpy, you and your sources.

Is he more concerned with leading one astray or his final temperature in hell?

Mickiel

Heb. 9:26 Jesus is appearing at the END of the world, and look, he is putting sin away, even then!

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself [Heb. 9:26].

"But now once in the end of the world should read the end of the age. This has no reference to what some people call the end of the world. Actually, the Bible does not teach the end of the world; it does teach the end of the age.
Hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Christ came, made under the Law. He appeared at the end of the Law age, and He instituted a new age, the age of grace." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (Hebrews 8-13) (electronic ed., Vol. 52, p. 44). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

patrick jane

[Mickiel] You're simply a Universalist.

Mickiel

I have a few Universalist views...You need me to be in a certain category, that would give you normality.

2 Pe 2:1

You want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. ~ Col. Jessep, A Few Good Men

I have been banned from two Universalist sites...

Is that because you repeat yourself?

Ad infinitum (repetition) Eph 4:14

2 Pet. 3:10...God is not going to force humanity to serve him?

"2 Pe 3:10 The day of the Lord. See Introduction to Joel: Historical and Theological Themes; see note on 1 Thess. 5:2. The Day of the Lord is a technical term pointing to the special interventions of God in human history for judgment. It ultimately refers to the future time of judgment whereby God judges the wicked on earth and ends this world system in its present form. The OT prophets saw the final Day of the Lord as unequaled darkness and damnation, a day when the Lord would act in a climactic way to vindicate His name, destroy His enemies, reveal His glory, establish His kingdom, and destroy the world (cf. Is. 2:1021; 13:622; Ezek. 18:30; Joel 1, 2; Amos 5; Obad. 15; Zech. 14; Mal. 4; 2 Thess. 1:7; 2:2). It occurs at the time of the tribulation on earth (Rev. 6:17), and again 1,000 years later at the end of the millennial kingdom before the creation of the new heavens and new earth (v. 13; Rev. 20:121:1). as a thief in the night. The Day of the Lord will have a surprise arrival, sudden, unexpected, and disastrous to the unprepared (see notes on 1 Thess. 5:2)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1959). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

We believers...

Mickiel

I am not Christian.

2 Pe 2:1

...[R]eally don't know God, we just like to think we do. Job 36:26

Phil 3:10

"Jb 36:26. (Job 37:13). Gods greatness in heaven and earth: a reason why Job should bow under His afflicting hand.

know him not only in part (Job 36:25; 1 Co 13:12)." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 1, p. 339). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Romans 8:29-30...[H]e predestinated all humans to belong to Christ."

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified [Rom. 8:2930].

"For refers back to verse 28 to remind us that he is not talking about anybody being elected to be lost, but he is speaking of the called, the predestined ones. Predestination never has any reference to the lost. You will never find it used in connection with them. If you ever hear someone talk about being predestined to be lost, you know he is not being scriptural.

Predestination means that, when God saves you, He is going to see you through. Whom He foreknew, He predestinated, and whom He predestinated, He called, and whom He called, He justified, and whom He justified, He glorified. In other words, this amazing section is on sanctification yet, Paul does not even mention being sanctified. Why? Because sanctification is the work of God in the heart and life of the believer. This is Gods eternal purpose. It just simply means this: When the Lord who is the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, the Good Shepherd of the Sheep, and Chief Shepherd of the Sheep starts out with one hundred sheep, He's going to come home with one hundred sheep; He will not lose one of them. You may remember that our Lord gave a parable about this, recorded in Luke 15. There was a shepherd, a good shepherd, who represents the Lord Jesus. One little old sheep got lost, got away. You would think He might say, Well, let him go. We've got ninety-nine of them safe in the fold. That's a good percentage. Anyone raising sheep knows that if you get to market with a little over fifty percent of those that are born, you're doing well. But this is an unusual shepherd. He is not satisfied with ninety nine. If He justifies one hundred sheep, He's going to glorify one hundred sheep. Ill make this rather personal. Someday He will be counting them in One, two, three, four, five ninety seven, ninety eight, ninety nine where in the world is Vernon McGee? Well, it looks like he didn't make it. Well let him go because a great many people didn't think he was going to make it anyway. My friend, thank God He wont let him go. That Shepherd is going after him. The doctrine of election means that the Lord will be coming home with one hundred sheep! This is not a frightful doctrine; it is a wonderful doctrine. It means that Vernon McGee's going to be there; and it means you are going to be there, my friend, if you have trusted Christ. This is a most comforting doctrine in these uncertain days in which we live." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (Romans 1-8) (electronic ed., Vol. 42, pp. 160161). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Who can separate unbelievers from the love of Christ?

Mt 25:32

Christians are trying...In Rom. 8:35

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [Rom. 8:35].

"He mentions everything imaginable here.

Is it possible that tribulation or trouble can separate us? No, my friend, because He wont let it. Distress or anguish? Oh, you may think God has let you down, but He hasn't. Persecution and this means legal persecution. It means there are those who will carry on a campaign against you. But that will not separate you from the love of Christ. Or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? By the way, this is a brief biography of Paul's life. He knows from experience that these will not separate you from Christ's love." McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed., Vol. 4, pp. 706707). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

A Christian will insult you in a quick minute and judge you very harshly, its their nature...

You're projecting again (Eph 5:11, 2 Ti 1:7).

The very last verse in the bible is universal, " Rev. 22:21...[I]t's for all!"

Ro 3:22

21. our—so Vulgate, Syriac, and Coptic. But A, B, and Aleph omit.

Christ—so B, Vulgate, Syriac, Coptic, and ANDREAS. But A and Aleph omit.

with you all—so none of our manuscripts. B has, “with all the saints.” A and Vulgate have, “with all.” Aleph has, “with the saints.” This closing benediction, Paul’s mark in his Epistles, was after Paul’s death taken up by John. The Old Testament ended with a “curse” in connection with the law; the New Testament ends with a blessing in union with the Lord Jesus.

Amen—so B, Aleph, and ANDREAS. A and Vulgate Fuldensis omit it.

May the Blessed Lord who has caused all holy Scriptures to be written for our learning, bless this humble effort to make Scripture expound itself, and make it an instrument towards the conversion of sinners and the edification of saints, to the glory of His great name and the hastening of His kingdom! Amen. Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 605). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Rev. 22:3...This eliminates the Christian myth of eternal hell...

"Re 22:3. no more curse of which the earnest shall be given in the millennium (Zec 14:11). God can only dwell where the curse and its cause, the cursed thing sin (Jos 7:12), are removed. So there follows rightly, But the throne of God and of the Lamb (who redeemed us from the curse, Ga 3:10, 13) shall be in it. Compare in the millennium, Ez 48:35.

serve him with worship (Rev 7:15)." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 603). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

[Rev. 21:4]

In Rev. 22:7 And who ever will , let him take the water of life freely! Amen, it's absolutely free!

"Re 22:7. And is omitted in Coptic and ANDREAS with English Version, but is inserted by A, B, Vulgate and Syriac.

7. “And” is omitted in Coptic and ANDREAS with English Version, but is inserted by A, B, Vulgate and Syriac.

blessed—(Rev 1:3). Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 604). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

In Rev. 19:1, Salvation is "unto God". Salvation is God's thing, its not a result of human choice.

Ge 2:17

1. As in the case of the opening of the prophecy, Rev 4:8; 5:9, &c.; so now, at one of the great closing events seen in vision. the judgment on the harlot (described in Rev 18:1–24), there is a song of praise in heaven to God: compare Rev 7:10, &c., toward the close of the seals, and Rev 11:15–18, at the close of the trumpets: Rev 15:3, at the saints’ victory over the beast.

And—so ANDREAS. But A, B, C, Vulgate, Syriac, and Coptic omit.

a great voice—A, B, C, Vulgate, Coptic, and ANDREAS read, “as it were a great voice.” What a contrast to the lamentations Rev 18:1–24! Compare Je 51:48. The great manifestation of God’s power in destroying Babylon calls forth a great voice of praise in heaven.

people—Greek, “multitude.”

Alleluia—Hebrew, “Praise ye JAH,” or JEHOVAH: here first used in Revelation, whence ELLICOTT infers the Jews bear a prominent part in this thanksgiving. JAH is not a contraction of “JEHOVAH,” as it sometimes occurs jointly with the latter. It means “He who Is”: whereas Jehovah is “He who will be, is, and was.” It implies God experienced as a PRESENT help; so that “Hallelujah,” says KIMCHI in BENGEL, is found first in the Psalms on the destruction of the ungodly. “Hallelu-Jah” occurs four times in this passage. Compare Ps 149:4–9, which is plainly parallel, and indeed identical in many of the phrases, as well as the general idea. Israel, especially, will join in the Hallelujah, when “her warfare is accomplished” and her foe destroyed.

Salvation, &c.—Greek, “The salvation … the glory … the power.”

and honour—so Coptic. But A, B, C, and Syriac omit.

unto the Lord our God—so ANDREAS. But A, B, C, and Coptic read, “(Is) of our God,” that is, belongs to Him. Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 595). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Why would God need a hell, when he has his Spirit?

He offers life (Eze 18:31, Heb. 9:14).

Why would God need a hell, when his patience is legendary?

Ge 6:3, Ro 1:28

Why would God need a hell, when we have the love of Christ?

Jn 8:44

God loves (Ga 2:20) and God hates (Ps 7:11, Mal 1:3).

Why would God need a hell, when he did not even create one for Satan?

Mt 25:41

Romans 5:10...Christians cannot stop the salvation of unbelievers...

"Ro 5:10. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being now having now been

reconciled, we shall be saved by his life that is If that part of the Savior's work which cost Him His blood, and which had to be wrought for persons incapable of the least sympathy either with His love or His labors in their behalf even our justification, our reconciliation is already completed; how much more will He do all that remains to be done, since He has it to do, not by death agonies any more, but in untroubled life, and no longer for enemies, but for friends from whom, at every stage of it, He receives the grateful response of redeemed and adoring souls? To be saved from wrath through Him, denotes here the whole work of Christ towards believers, from the moment of justification, when the wrath of God is turned away from them, till the Judge on the great white throne shall discharge that wrath upon them that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ; and that work may all be summed up in keeping them from falling, and presenting them faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy (Jud 1:24): thus are they saved from wrath through Him." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 231). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Every reason a Christian would condemn you...

Jud 9, Jn 3:18, 19

Let's look at more hope for unbelievers and those who reject God. In 1 John 2:2 ...Obvious universal salvation.

"1 Jn 2:2 propitiation. Cf. 4:10. The word means appeasement or satisfaction. The sacrifice of Jesus on the cross satisfied the demands of Gods holiness for the punishment of sin (cf. Rom. 1:18; 2 Cor. 5:21; Eph. 2:3). So Jesus propitiated or satisfied God. See note on Heb. 9:5 for a clear illustration of propitiation. for the whole world. This is a generic term, referring not to every single individual, but to mankind in general. Christ actually paid the penalty only for those who would repent and believe. A number of Scriptures indicate that Christ died for the world (John 1:29; 3:16; 6:51; 1 Tim. 2:6; Heb. 2:9). Most of the world will be eternally condemned to hell to pay for their own sins, so they could not have been paid for by Christ. The passages which speak of Christ's dying for the whole world must be understood to refer to mankind in general (as in Titus 2:3, 4). World indicates the sphere, the beings toward whom God seeks reconciliation and has provided propitiation. God has mitigated His wrath on sinners temporarily, by letting them live and enjoy earthly life (See note on 1 Tim. 4:10). In that sense, Christ has provided a brief, temporal propitiation for the whole world. But He actually satisfied fully the wrath of God eternally only for the elect who believe. Christ's death in itself had unlimited and infinite value because He is Holy God. Thus His sacrifice was sufficient to pay the penalty for all the sins of all whom God brings to faith. But the actual satisfaction and atonement was made only for those who believe (cf. John 10:11, 15; 17:9, 20; Acts 20:28; Rom. 8:32, 37; Eph. 5:25). The pardon for sin is offered to the whole world, but received only by those who believe (cf. 4:9, 14; John 5:24). There is no other way to be reconciled to God." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1965). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

...God loves us and sent his Son to cover our sins 1 John 4:10

"1 Jn 4:10 propitiation for our sins. For the words meaning, See note on 2:2. Hebrews 9:5 translates a form of this word as the mercy seat. Christ lit. became our mercy seat like the one in the Holy of Holies, where the High-Priest splattered the blood of the sacrifice on the Day of Atonement (Lev. 16:15). Christ did this when His blood, spilled on behalf of others, satisfied the demands of Gods holy justice and wrath against sin.

4:11 Gods sending His Son gives Christians not only salvation privilege, but obligation to follow this pattern of sacrificial love. Christian love must be self-sacrificing like Gods love." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1972). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

John 17:2...Jesus can give eternal life to all flesh!

"B. The fruitful Son (17:24)
1. He has given eternal life to all the elect (17:23).
2. He has completed his assignment (17:4)." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Jn 17:14). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

Job 34:19...Unbelievers are the work of God's hands...

Who hath given him a charge over the earth? or who hath disposed the whole world?
If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath [Job 34:1314].

"The point is that God has a care, God has a concern for man." McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed., Vol. 2, p. 648). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

...[P]eople who reject Christ still belong to God...Acts 10:34...

"Ac 34, 35. Peter opened his mouth (See on Mt 5:2).

Of a truth I perceive that is, I have it now demonstrated before mine eyes.

that God is no respecter of persons. Not, I see there is no capricious favoritism with God, for Peter would never imagine such a thing; but (as the next clause shows), I see that God has respect only to personal character and state in the acceptance of men, national and ecclesiastical distinctions being of no account." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 186). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Rom. 2:11 "For there is no respect of persons with God", in other words, salvation is for everyone, especially those who reject it!

Ro 2:129. The Jew Under Like Condemnation with the Gentile Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D.

Ezk. 33:11...[H]e is not a sadist, like many of his followers are.

"Eze 33:11. To meet the Jews cry of despair in Ez 33:10, Ezekiel here cheers them by the assurance that God has no pleasure in their death, but that they should repent and live (2 Pe 3:9). A yearning tenderness manifests itself here, notwithstanding all their past sins; yet with it a holiness that abates nothing of its demands for the honor of Gods authority. Gods righteousness is vindicated as in Ez 3:1821 and Ez 18:132, by the statement that each should be treated with the closest adaptation of Gods justice to his particular case." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 1, p. 606). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Lamentations 3:31 "For the Lord will not cast off forever!" Eternal hell is a vicious lie.

"IV. The Admonition (3:2530, 3442): Jeremiahs threefold advice to the people:
A. Wait patiently for the Lord to respond (3:2526).
B. Accept the Lords discipline (3:2730, 3439).
C. Repent of your sin (3:4042)." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (La 3:2142). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

All the people of the earth are destined to know God, 1 Kings 8:60, the Christian hell is pointless and cruel.

"1 Ki 8:5461 Solomon arose to pronounce a benediction on the people. His words were substantially a brief recapitulation of the preceding prayer in which he affirmed the faithfulness of the Lord to Israel (v. 56) and exhorted Israel to faithfulness to the Lord (vv. 5761)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 487). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

...I want nothing to do with any power that can persuade a mind of that.

We know (2 Ti 2:17, Hab 2:18).

I suppose you could discuss hell here, too.

See:

Hell Fact or Fiction? By J. Vernon McGee

Posted in his other thread The real book on Christianity. Link

We choose our own harvest (Mt 13:30, Ga 6:7).

"The gates of hell are locked from the inside." ~ C.S. Lewis

Related:

Why would God need a hell? Pt 1

intojoy

Why not?

God is just (Deut. 32:4).

"The self-centered man...because he spent all of his life for himself, he ended up in eternity by himself." Luke 16:19-31 ~ Michael Youssef

See:

Life After Death by Michael Youssef

[Thread closed by moderator]

"Truth is hate to those who hate the truth." ~ Bob Enyart Mk 9:41, 13:7, 25:8, 40, Dan 10:13, Ps 105:15, Ro 14:4, Mk 6:11, Is 45:24, 54:17, Re 12:10, 12, Jud 1:9

On that we agree (Jud 11). [IMG]

He is altogether lovely. [IMG]

If you knew him, [IMG]

you’d be a Jesus [IMG]

freak like me (Ps. 65:4).

Yep.

"The greatest sin is sinning against love." ~ J. Vernon McGee

The

Quran does not speak about the love of their god. They, like you, would have no clue (2 Pe 2:1).

See:

How the Vatican Created Islam

The Vatican Creation of Islam for the Persecution of Jews & Christians

Hitler's Pope: Pope Pius XII

To those perishing (1 Co 1:18). If I were perishing, [IMG]

I suppose I'd say the same thing.

I can fathom why you can’t fathom (Ex. 31:3). If you’d like to fathom, get yourself a savior. [IMG]

That, too.

Fear God (Ro 3:18). [IMG]

Better to fear him now rather than later.

You’re the sick one. We are the healthy ones (Lk 5:31). [IMG]

You should be grateful that he is a friend of sinners (Mt 11:19). I'm one, you're one. [IMG]

If you reject him, you and your sickness will continue to complain about him in all eternity. [IMG]

Now you will ask, how can we in heaven deal with that? We do (Re 21:4)—somehow (Ps 56:8).

Already have. He has given you the ability to accept or reject him. He won't force to you love him. That way--love is real. [IMG]

Love is the most valuable thing in the universe.

This life is a test...this is a test...only a test.. You failed. But there I go quoting Q again. Love when he Catholic [IMG]

bashes (Jud 11). [IMG]

Eternal punishment for offending an eternal God (2 Thess. 1:9). Pick your friends better next time—oh that’s right—there is no next time. Too bad, so sad for you. [IMG]

You’re looking for God in the same way that a robber is looking for a police officer. [IMG]

By all means, keep blaming him. See how that works out for ya.

Because it happens to be true (Jn 14:6). What you do with Jesus will determine your destiny.

He died for you. That wasn't loving enough? Ro 5:8. We win (Re 12:11).

Why would God need a hell?