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If government is the middle man,

that doesn't make stealing right (Enyart, paraphrased). Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10

Response to comment [from a "Christian"]: "Wrong. Your warped mindset and willingness to twist scripture to fit your own ideology is simply evil..."

[Argument based on scripture: The Bible Speaks On Welfare] ...[S]ome silly and ill thought out link written by someone who tries to justify denying the poor help and support through any government aid.

If you disagree with the Left (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10) , you love rich people and hate poor people!

Recommended Reading:

Bullies: How the Left's Culture of Fear and Intimidation Silences Americans by Ben Shapiro

[Art Kohl] "He makes a risible argument with as many holes in it as a sieve. That isn't the equivalent of your equally ill thought out definitions and differences between "left" and "right"."

He made an argument based on scripture. You made an argument based on your good looks.

Do I misrepresent your side's position? Are conservatives evil? Do we think kids ought to go to bed hungry at night?

"Our moral values, in contradiction to the Republicans', is we don't think kids ought to go to bed hungry at night." ~ Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee

[Argument based on scripture] "He made an 'argument' based on certain pieces which were then twisted into some bizarre anti welfare rant..."

Let the reader decide.

I'd love to hear him explain what should happen to people who are out of work where jobs are scarce, those who aren't able to work etc where there isn't any family support or charity to help.

"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."

~ Karl Marx

"So, another snipped post, an irrelevant quote instead of directly addressing anything..."

We get our values from the Bible.

Where do you get your values? The Communist Manifesto?

Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10

"Well if you did you wouldn't have a problem with the poor, sick, vulnerable and elderly being made provision for in society."

"Maybe you think the rich man was right to deny Lazarus even the crumbs from his table?"

See:

What Christianity Has Done for the World

"Lk 16:20 Lazarus. Clearly not the Lazarus in John 11 (who died at a later time). This beggar was the only character in any of Jesus’ parables ever given a name. Some therefore have speculated that this was no imaginary tale, but an actual incident that really took place. Either way, Christ employs it in the same fashion as all His parables, to teach a lesson, in this case for the benefit of the Pharisees. The rich man in the parable is sometimes called Dives, after the Latin word for “rich.”

16:21 The mention of table scraps, sores, and dogs all made this poor man appear odious in the eyes of the Pharisees. They were inclined to see all such things as proof of divine disfavor. They would have viewed such a person as not only unclean, but also despised by God.

16:22 Abraham’s bosom. This same expression (found only here in Scripture) was used in the Talmud as a figure for heaven. The idea was that Lazarus was given a place of high honor, reclining next to Abraham at the heavenly banquet.

16:23 in Hades. The suggestion that a rich man would be excluded from heaven would have scandalized the Pharisees (see note on Matt. 19:24); especially galling was the idea that a beggar who ate scraps from his table was granted the place of honor next to Abraham. “Hades” was the Gr. term for the abode of the dead. In the LXX, it was used to translate the Heb. Sheol, which referred to the realm of the dead in general, without necessarily distinguishing between righteous or unrighteous souls. However, in NT usage, “Hades” always refers to the place of the wicked prior to final judgment in hell. The imagery Jesus used fit the erroneous common rabbinical idea that Sheol had two parts, one for the souls of the righteous and the other for the souls of the wicked—separated by an impassable gulf. But there is no reason to suppose, as some do, that “Abraham’s bosom” spoke of a temporary prison for the souls of OT saints, who were brought to heaven only after He had actually atoned for their sins. Scripture consistently teaches that the spirits of the righteous dead go immediately into the presence of God (cf. 23:43; 2 Cor. 5:8; Phil. 1:23). And the presence of Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration (9:30) belies the notion that they were confined in a compartment of Sheol until Christ finished His work.

16:24 I am tormented. Christ pictured Hades as a place where the unspeakable torment of hell had already begun. Among the miseries featured here are unquenchable flame (see note on Matt. 25:46); an accusing conscience fed by undying memories of lost opportunity (v. 25); and permanent, irreversible separation from God and everything good (v. 26).

16:27 send him to my father’s house. The rich man retained a condescending attitude toward Lazarus even in hell, repeatedly asking Abraham to “send” Lazarus to wait on him (cf. v. 24). The flames of hell do not atone for sin or purge hardened sinners from their depravity (cf. Rev. 22:11).

16:29 They have Moses and the prophets. I.e., the OT Scriptures.

16:31 neither will they be persuaded. This speaks powerfully of the singular sufficiency of Scripture to overcome unbelief. The gospel itself is the power of God unto salvation (Rom. 1:16). Since unbelief is at heart a moral, rather than an intellectual, problem, no amount of evidences will ever turn unbelief to faith. But the revealed Word of God has inherent power to do so (cf. John 6:63; Heb. 4:12; James 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:23)." The MacArthur Study Bible. 1997 (J. MacArthur, Jr., Ed.) (electronic ed.) (Lk 16:20–31). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

Response to comment [from a Christian]: "Its not outrageous to help their family, with their own things, it is outrageous to make American taxpayers help them..."

[We get our values from the Bible.

Where do you get your values? The Communist Manifesto?

Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10] "Forget it."

"No, I don't get my values from the bloody [C]ommunist [M]anifesto. How that wasn't already obvious without having to spell it out in six foot high neon letters is totally bemusing."

"Now you go on and snip this and link it back to your site, and unless you're going to start actually debating..."

You floated the Jesus was a Marxist

idea but that didn't work out so well. Mk 8:27

[Where do you get your values?

] "It didn't "work out so well" because I never floated the idea in the first place."

[Where do you get your values?

] "You've been answered on the latter verse [2 Thess 3:10] already."

"2 Thess 3:10. The missionaries had taught the Thessalonians to be industrious as well as giving them a good example. Paul wanted no one to forget exactly what the apostles had said. It was a firm rule of Christian conduct. He either quoted it verbatim here or summarized his previous teaching into a single pithy precept. The individuals in view were not those who could not work but those who would not work. They were not to be supported by other Christians out of a sense of charity. The loving thing to do for those drones was to let them go hungry so that they would be forced to do right and go to work. No Christian who is able but unwilling to work should be maintained by others who labor on his behalf." Constable, T. L. (1985). 2 Thessalonians. In J. F. Walvoord & R. B. Zuck (Eds.), The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (J. F. Walvoord & R. B. Zuck, Ed.) (2 Th 3:10). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.

[Lives in UK] "...Churches don't have funds available to provide for all of those out of employment..."

"If your answer is charity, church and family support then it's completely unrealistic that it would cover all of those in need."

"...You're a dishonest lying troll who never attempts honest conversation and spams up every thread she's in..."

"...You've purposely not answered it and I'm tired of wasting time with a deliberately dishonest troll..."

[Poor with you always Mk 14:7] "It's still there, twice now and you won't answer it anyway so don't pretend..."

[What's the question?

] "Go and quote mine people onto that lying travesty of a website of yours you deeply obnoxious little spammer."

[Poor with you always Mk 14:7] "...[Y]ou aren't honest as the question is still there."

"I'd have more respect for someone who actually said they'd see those incapable of work without any aid as it would be honest at least."

You do think that conservatives want children to go to bed hungry.

Are conservatives evil?

"Thanks for proving you care nothing about the truth or people and confirming you're a deliberate liar who can't answer with any honesty at all."

If I admit that we want all children go to bed hungry, will you admit that you believe we are evil

and can therefore dismiss our argument?

"No, because unlike you I'd have to lie in order to make any such admission and I wouldn't be comfortable with that. I don't view conservatives as evil."

We make decisions based on a set of principles (Ex 20:15).

Leftists make decisions based on feelings.

Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10

"Our moral values, in contradiction to the Republicans', is we don't think kids ought to go to bed hungry at night." ~ Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee

Who wants the opinion of a liar who wants children to go to bed hungry at night?

Response to comment [from a Catholic]: "She's found good company with a couple of her buddies..."

Response to comment [from other]: "You should have the guts to either retract your signature claims or provide proof for them."

"2 Co 11:14 — For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

Cults and false religions through the ages have often begun out of interactions with beings who presented themselves as angels. Demonic double-agents can do a great deal of harm, and we must beware of them." Stanley, C. F. (2005). The Charles F. Stanley life principles Bible: New King James Version (2 Co 11:14). Nashville, TN: Nelson Bibles.

"What does J. Vernon McGee have to say about deliberately bearing false witness?"

"...'vananne.com', your own little site where you fib, quote mine from here and generally air a whole load of bullocks for anyone unfortunate enough to pass by..."

[Basic English, Editing length of posts on site] "Well that's pretty much just as well cos' you'd suck at it."

"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." ~ Oscar Wilde

A few housekeeping items:

As a reminder, (

) stands for ad hominem attack, (

) stands for "facts, just the facts ma'am."

The fact

is we disagree.

You don't do evil (Ex 20:15) that good may come of it (Ro 3:5-8).

Anything that relaxes, refreshes and restores is a good thing. Bless others (1 Pe 3:9, Mt 12:36, Rogers).

Response to comment [from an atheist]: "I run TOL Lightweight with the sigs turned off. That puts your avatar and stats in a nice short bar at the top and your post below it in as short a space as needed without the sig stuff. I highly recommend it. Just try it, just try it once."

[Signature] "I can't see it. I can't see mine for that matter, what does it say?"